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-   -   Elder Nelson on the new Apostolic "candidate search" (http://www.cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11667)

MikeWaters 09-10-2007 05:44 PM

who was the last GA to say it?

UtahDan 09-10-2007 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 121809)
So the non-witness apostles don't feel bad.

Wasn't it BKP that was so appalled when a member asked him if he had seen Christ?

I've heard GBH say that revelation comes to him through the Spirit. He said it was the same to him, basically as it was to any faithful member, as to process.

Was BKP really appalled by that or is that Mormon lore? I would be surprised if any apostle were really appalled by that question. When your title is special witness and you are sustained as a prophet, seer and revelator I think it is one of the most natural questions in the world.

Now, that said, I can see a kind and patient leader explaining why it is a question he declines to answer. I can't see why it would be one he would take offense at. I would be surprised if the story were true.

My understanding of what GBH has said is exactly what yours is.

UtahDan 09-10-2007 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug (Post 121812)
At the bare minimum, they are special witnesses simply due to their calling and the priesthood keys they hold. That still holds regardless of whether or not they've seen Christ in the flesh.

Why would baring the mantle and holding the keys make them a "special" witness. I give "special" its ordinary meaning, to-wit: unlike other witnesses.

Tex 09-10-2007 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan (Post 121827)
Why would baring the mantle and holding the keys make them a "special" witness. I give "special" its ordinary meaning, to-wit: unlike other witnesses.

Does not holding keys no one else holds make them unlike other witnesses?

Indy Coug 09-10-2007 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan (Post 121827)
Why would baring the mantle and holding the keys make them a "special" witness. I give "special" its ordinary meaning, to-wit: unlike other witnesses.

Personally, it's my belief that most, if not all, of the Apostles have seen Christ in the flesh.

Why they don't explicitly state that fact is a very good question.

Tex 09-10-2007 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug (Post 121837)
Personally, it's my belief that most, if not all, of the Apostles have seen Christ in the flesh.

Why they don't explicitly state that fact is a very good question.

I'm going to guess that it's based on the same principle as what's in D&C 10:37 and 11:22. To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven (thank you Ecclesiates and the Byrds) and now is not the time for our fifteen leaders to march throughout the earth claiming they have personally seen Jesus.

But someday, I expect that time will come.

UtahDan 09-10-2007 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex (Post 121835)
Does not holding keys no one else holds make them unlike other witnesses?

Sure, but they could all get matching tattoos and that would make them unlike other witnesses as well. I'm inferring that you think the answer to your question is yes. Why would holding keys, of itself, change the quality of witness they are? That was where I wasn't understanding you.

MikeWaters 09-10-2007 06:12 PM

I would love to do a film, starring Woody Allen, as newly called apostle, who frets mightily about whether he is adequate, and whether he has received or will receive a "special witness." It would be very funny.

UtahDan 09-10-2007 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug (Post 121837)
Personally, it's my belief that most, if not all, of the Apostles have seen Christ in the flesh.

Why they don't explicitly state that fact is a very good question.

I agree, it is an interesting question. I think that based upon what they themselves have said one could justifiably reach the conclusion that they all have or none of them have.

I don't honestly have enough information to form an opinion as to whether they all have or any of them have. I do believe that collectively they are guided by inspiration. I have no idea whether that takes the form of heavenly visitations. I think we are given to believe that they struggle to receive inspiration in much the same way most of us do. Maybe heavenly visitation is a reward and has nothing to do with revelation, which happens by a different process. I just don't know.

UtahDan 09-10-2007 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 121847)
I would love to do a film, starring Woody Allen, as newly called apostle, who frets mightily about whether he is adequate, and whether he has received or will receive a "special witness." It would be very funny.

I'm sure it is a poor reflection on me, but I wouldn't want to see the Lord. I'm in the group that would rather have the mountain placed on top of me so I could hide. I just don't think I would be comfortable in His presence. Maybe I'm wrong.


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