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- - "Worthiness"... (http://www.cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16311)

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottie (Post 179245)

Not trying to start any sort of debate here, this is all just my opinion of course, but maybe spin it by reading D&C 89 verses 5 and 17:

5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

Beer is a mild drink made of barley, in fact in my opinion beer is probably exactly what was referred to in that verse. Wine, whiskey, vodka, etc., are strong drinks, and beer is a mild drink. Anyone who has tasted wine/whiskey/vodka and beer will tell you the same thing, that beer is definitely mild compared to the others.

Reading the section "The Word of Wisdom - From Principle to Requirement" at this link also gives background on how the WOW has been changed by the brethren:

http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/doc...&CISOSHOW=6510

Based on that reading it's not a stretch to conclude that changes in the WOW since JS's original revelation were simply based on how certain brethen felt about it at the time rather than through revelation.

Anyway, maybe you can't spin knocking down a cool one every once in awhile, but some might.

I could actually justify in my own mind (spin) knocking down a cool one before I could lieing or cheating in a business dealing. Sadly though I think there are a lot of "members" who can easily answer the honesty question through rationalization that couldn't sipping a cool one. In my mind the WOW deal has taken too much of the spotlight in determing how good a member is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU71 (Post 179248)

In my mind the WOW deal has taken to much of the spotlight in determing how good a member is.

Amen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 179247)

There is no double standard on worthiness if you just understand the hidden meaning of the word, Tex asserts.

This goes directly to the original point of this thread.

Of course Tex won't tell us, the vast unwashed masses, what "worthy" means, just what it doesn't mean. Pearl before swine in his mind no doubt.

There's no double standard, and there's no "hidden meaning" so far as I know. And it's not that "won't tell" you ... do a search on lds.org and find out what's been said about being worthy. Good grief, you waste hours peddling your own soft doctrine, surely a simple search is worth your time.

I've been studying the concept of "worthiness to..." for quite some time. It is a point of interest to me because of my close connection to a family where the mother has established a matriarchy by being the only one "worthy" to receive revelation. She will tell everyone that she prayed about what they should do and it is ________. She maintains this apostate control by playing on the fact that her children aren't "worthy" to pray for their own revelations. I think the doctrine of worthiness is only important insofar as it is applied to receiving a temple recommend. Because a standard has been set for worldly entrance into God's presence. Outside of that, I don't believe you can be unworthy to receive revelation, inspiration, the Holy Ghost etc. I do believe that people who sin tend to ignore the Holy Ghost but he is not absent in an earthly sense of absence. If so, what is the purpose of the Gift of the Holy Ghost? Does always not mean always?

Anyway, I'm totally with Adam, this is a pernicious doctrine taught to control children. I'm appalled by it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-dog (Post 179295)

If so, what is the purpose of the Gift of the Holy Ghost? Does always not mean always?

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/130/23

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/121/37

I think for some people, there may be unnecessary seeds of doubt in their mind as to whether they are worthy to go to church, take sacrament, perform ordinances or blessings, have callings, and the list goes on and on. In some ways, one's worthiness may be correlated more with personality type than it is with actual events.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex (Post 179296)

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/130/23

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/121/37

Just quoting scriptures doesn't help. In fact, one of my pet peeves is when someone assumes everyone else understands the scriptures the exact same way they do. I got the pet peeve by interacting with Larry Miller. He always does that and it drives me crazy. If you have a point, make it. Use verse to support it. Don't assume that I'll make your point for you because you cited a pair of scriptures.

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-dog (Post 179299)

Did you read them?

D&C 130:23 states that the Holy Ghost may not tarry with a man.
D&C 121:37 states the the spirit of the Lord can withdraw from a man.

To your meaning, does this not apply to a person who has received the gift of the Holy Ghost?

I'm knocking back a cold one right now, and I lie all the time. Among my friends I have a reputation for being extremely honest, often to a fault, but that doesn't mean that I never lie. Everybody lies. There are simply times when it is culturally acceptable and times when it is not. Just like drinking beer.