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-   Religion (http://www.cougarguard.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9)
-   -   Recording of an excommunication (http://www.cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17249)

SteelBlue 02-29-2008 03:23 PM
Did anyone else laugh out loud when he referenced Nickelback?

There's something we're missing in this story. Something about exactly how he was going around and spreading his "message". If he's just bringing up polyandry to fellow ward members, that can't be an excommunication worthy offense can it? I've never heard of somebody being exed because they lost a testimony, or doubted the historicity of the BoM.

Indy Coug 02-29-2008 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 191682)
I don't think we will see lesson manuals mention JS's polyandry anytime soon. We will probably unofficially deny it happened for another two decades. Then there will be a tacit admission, but still kept under wraps.

Unfortunately there will be a few members who will feel they were lied to. Or rather, they will be lied to, but get upset about it. Many of us realize we have been deceived in many respects, but we give the deceivers the benefit of the doubt. Like parents, they protected us from the grimy things of the world, which would come soon enough.
Kept under wraps? You think the church has this info monopolized and buried in the Granite Vault?

MikeWaters 02-29-2008 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy Coug (Post 191686)
Kept under wraps? You think the church has this info monopolized and buried in the Granite Vault?
I think the church has pushed back against honest historians. I don't think an honest observer can dispute this.

I also think that history in the curricula is shown through a highly distorted lens. yes, there is a camera with a lens there, but it is a tilt lens. taking many things out of focus to obscure them, while allowing just the chosen bits to be examined.

Gosh, tilt lens is a brilliant metaphor for what the church does. "We didn't hide that, see it's right there in the picture in that orange smudge".

Indy Coug 02-29-2008 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelBlue (Post 191685)
Did anyone else laugh out loud when he referenced Nickelback?
That's when the cracks really began to show: his bizarre rant against spiritual witnesses and his pathetic attempt to provide an alternative description.

MikeWaters 02-29-2008 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelBlue (Post 191685)
Did anyone else laugh out loud when he referenced Nickelback?

There's something we're missing in this story. Something about exactly how he was going around and spreading his "message". If he's just bringing up polyandry to fellow ward members, that can't be an excommunication worthy offense can it? I've never heard of somebody being exed because they lost a testimony, or doubted the historicity of the BoM.
I was groaning when he started with kraukauer.

BYU71 02-29-2008 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy Coug (Post 191683)
I thought the SP was very respectful and allowed Lyndon to say his peace. He challenged him on a couple of items, but allowed Lyndon to respond.

Another thing I found funny was Lyndon leaving behind charts for the disciplinary council as he left the building.

Because it's clear that Lyndon intended to record and disseminate this hearing, I'm curious how he would have really conducted himself in absence of a recording. It's obvious he's trying to protray himself as the kind, almost respectful conscientious objector.
Yea, I didn't see the SP being particulary bad in anyway. I am only saying, what was the point. Why challenge him on anything. The fact they exed him would have been a clear message they challenged his thinking and actions.

The need to be overly fair in my humble opinion is an admission that the system isn't all that fair or spiritual in nature. I often laugh when people refer to excommunication procedures as "spiritual". Spiritual for who. They are organizational function in order to kick someone out.

Sleeping in EQ 02-29-2008 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelBlue (Post 191685)
Did anyone else laugh out loud when he referenced Nickelback?

There's something we're missing in this story. Something about exactly how he was going around and spreading his "message". If he's just bringing up polyandry to fellow ward members, that can't be an excommunication worthy offense can it? I've never heard of somebody being exed because they lost a testimony, or doubted the historicity of the BoM.
Nickelback did him in. He was exed at Nickelback and everyone in the room knew it.

MikeWaters 02-29-2008 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BYU71 (Post 191690)
Yea, I didn't see the SP being particulary bad in anyway. I am only saying, what was the point. Why challenge him on anything. The fact they exed him would have been a clear message they challenged his thinking and actions.

The need to be overly fair in my humble opinion is an admission that the system isn't all that fair or spiritual in nature. I often laugh when people refer to excommunication procedures as "spiritual". Spiritual for who. They are organizational function in order to kick someone out.
Yes, this didn't strike me as very spiritual, nor very loving. Merely courteous and formal, and frankly lacking any depth on a spirtual or intellectual level.

Jeff Lebowski 02-29-2008 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 191682)
I don't think we will see lesson manuals mention JS's polyandry anytime soon. We will probably unofficially deny it happened for another two decades. Then there will be a tacit admission, but still kept under wraps.

Unfortunately there will be a few members who will feel they were lied to. Or rather, they will be lied to, but get upset about it. Many of us realize we have been deceived in many respects, but we give the deceivers the benefit of the doubt. Like parents, they protected us from the grimy things of the world, which would come soon enough.
Has the church ever officially denied JS's polyandry? I know they like to avoid the topic, but have they ever claimed it didn't happen?

BYU71 02-29-2008 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 191692)
Yes, this didn't strike me as very spiritual, nor very loving. Merely courteous and formal, and frankly lacking any depth on a spirtual or intellectual level.
My point is why pretend there is going to be an intellectual or spiritual event in these things.

Did Lamborn think he was going to intellectually convince these men to also condemn Joseph Smith and the church. Did the SP think all of a sudden the spirit would enter the room, brother Lamborn would start weeping and thank these brethern for saving his sole.

I know it is serious to these parties, but as an observer I thought you Tube was good place for it. It was comical.


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