The disproportionate tax burden
 

Via Powerline:

The main reason Obama wants to raise taxes on the rich is because no one else is even paying them.

Oh, and if you pay taxes ... you're rich. Go figure.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../07/020953.php

Why do the rich keep getting richer, and the middle class is stagnant? Because of market forces, or because of a system set up by the govt. that rewards the already rich?

I'm curious--how does the tax code reward the rich? What other aspects of the "system set up by the govt." are you talking about?

I've heard that society is becoming increasingly disparate between the haves and have nots, and that the middle class real income is completely stagnant, while the rich are growing in income leaps and bounds.

My question is "why now"?

Simple. Compound interest. Assume a 3% across-the-board cost of living increase regardless of salary level.

2001: A makes $25K, B makes $250K; a difference of $225K
2020: A makes $45,150, B makes $451,500; a difference of $406,350

Furthermore, the rich have a better understanding of money management and more disposable income to invest in more aggressive portfolios that yield a higher rate of return.

Just as an aside, the salary for my job where I work has been stagnant for about 10 years I believe.

Every year, we are poorer. (eventually you get promoted to another higher benchline, and get poorer every year after that because of no COL increases).

Interestingly, the VA is looking to hire A LOT of psychiatrists because of the huge number of mentally ill soldiers returning from overseas. From my vantage point, a tough sell became even tougher. I don't think they have raised their pay, and they are expecting guys to come it at 50-65% of private practice salary. And they wonder why positions are unfilled.

Because we're moving from republic to empire. Much like the ever warming and cooling earth it's a natural process and nothing to be alarmed about.

At some point, supply and demand is bound to work in your favor.

I agree.

Look at this, it's even worse than I thought. VAs trying to hire psychiatrists at 93k a year.

http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/jobsear...q=Psychiatrist

I don't believe it.

What it does illustrate, however, is that one reason the bottom 50% don't get a lot of tax relief is because they aren't paying any to begin with. This is why we disguise welfare in the form of "tax credits" these days (EITC).

Millionaire farmers getting rich off of farm subsidies.

I'm supposed to cry over them paying taxes?

Unfortunately, most of the poor are poor because of the sum of their life choices. Taxing the bejeezus out of the rich isn't going to alter that.

Like me and my family?

Amen, brother.

You and your family are poor? I guess we'd better define "poor". Poor aren't entry level workers who just graduated from college and whose profession has a salary range upper end of several hundred thousand dollars a year.

No, I'm not poor.

But I was relatively low on the totem pole growing up.

My father took his first job after graduate school, in the 20k range. High 20k I think. Then he lost his job when the economy turned south in Texas during the oil bust.

What were the wrong choices he made?

I never went hungry so I wasn't truly poor.

Well, I didn't say "all", so I'm not going to respond to every counterexample you want to conjure up.

My wife for a time was truly poor and it was because of some of the choices her dad made.

I "conjured" up my own life experience?

I don't know how old your father is, but depending on the time frame, 20k is a very respectable salary.

I was talking about any other additional examples you might want to trot out.

My first job at Beneficial Life was barely over $20K in 1995.

I made 24K on my first job out of BYU. In 1997. I would have loved to take an inflation-adjusted 20K job.

True.

When my parents were first married (1960), they were both school teachers and had a combined yearly salary of $6,600.

Because most people don't know how to make and keep money.

Did you all have 3 kids and a wife to feed, and a house you had just bought? Probably not.

What if you made that 24k, and then you lost your job? For a time, my father, with a fairly new PhD, worked as a custodian and delivered newspapers.

What year was this, Mike, just so we have a point of reference?

I remember when my dad's salary was $600 per month. Early 70's.

My FIL made less than that.

My salary has greatly exceeded the rate of inflation over the last 13 years because I have continued to enhance my educational background, learn new skills and accumulated a broad wealth of work experience in different actuarial disciplines.

early 80s.

in SLC? I worked there during college.
I got paid to sit and do homework all evening. Occaisionally, the computer would beep, and I'd go switch tape reels. Great job.

Yes, the big building on South Temple and State.

Here's where I think the problem is...relative deprivation.
The capabilities of the rich have expanded exponentially with the technology explosion of the last few decades. Poor people see these things and want them, but they're not willing to either go without or wait until they can afford them. Thus, two nice cars, a cell phone with texting capabilities, a big screen TV, and an up-to-date personal computer (and a variety of other luxuries) have become the "norm". Thirty years ago, no one had computers, cell phones, or home theater systems, most households had one car, and the average house size was half of what it is today. When you try to finance a "norm" you can't afford, your pocketbook is going to suffer, and you become poorer. I'm continually amazed at the horrible financial decisions that poor people in my family are making. Guess what, people? You can exist without a cell phone! Satellite TV is not a necessity! You don't HAVE to eat out three times a week!

I'm a little tired of financing their poor choices.

i was done by 95, but i bet the same people worked there.... Can't remember my boss, a *really* tall skinny dude. And his boss, a nice bald dude who kind of looked like Dallin Oaks. And a dude who tried to be my boss. nasty breath, yellow pit stains.

Someone else can find some more reliable numbers, but according to this site, a salary in the high 20's during the early 1980's would've put your dad somewhere between the top 10 and top 25% of all income earners.

So spare us the lecture on how poor you were growing up.

Sometimes life sucks.
Thank god you had a responsible dad. Many are not so lucky.

I remember reading in the mid 80's that the SLC mayor (Palmer Depaulis if recall?) made 50K. I was only 10-11, but I remember thinking that is one sweet salary.

Amazing, isn't it?

When Dad quit teaching to be a general contractor, I remember him saying that if he could get to the point of making $25,000, life would be good.

Listen up you fucking brainless shit, HE LOST HIS JOB.

were middle class homes 300,000 dollars at that point?