Some people are gullible (baseball player)
 

I don't have time to read everybody's opinion on the baseball player getting kicked out of BYU for his 60% church attendance and not requesting a calling, but if anyone's buying that I've got a bridge...

I don't have any inside scoop to the situation, but if I may be so brash as to speculate, let me make a hypothesis:

Said baseballer (we have baseball at BYU??) sticks his dick where it doesn't belong (or where it does belong depending upon your point of view). Baseballer meets with Bishop. Bishop refuses to sign ecclesiastical endorsement.

So baller has to tell his parents he was kicked out of BYU. Dad says 'why'? Baller, to save face, lies to Dad, telling him it was for "church attendance". Father runs to media, BYU knows nothing, Bishop can't say anything. Suddenly, headlines read "BYU kicks out baseball player for skipping church". Kid won't comment, mostly because he lied about the situation, and the Bishop knows it, the SP knows it, the joint copulator knows it and well as his friends he bragged to about said copulation.

Now, doesn't that make more sense than this BS Trib story.

Again, I don't know what transgression the kid committed. My story was purely hypothetical, but I'm guessing it was more than ditching out on Elder's Quorum. Color me skeptical.

Why is it that the people who are uncomfortable criticizing BYU in this situation are so very comfortable speculating on the morals (especially as related to fornication) of this kid?

Could be, I suppose. Then again, it could be that the kid is telling the truth. And he gets the double-whammy of not just getting kicked out for dubious reasons, but now has to endure lots of rumors and speculation about his lack of character and the "real reasons" for the dismissal.

Sadly, these episodes tell us a lot about ourselves.

No the Honor Code Office would be involved if it were a sexual transgression. And I don't see Dad running to the newspaper if it were anything else. I also believe the kid is an RM, which lessens the probability of that aspect. I don't buy your argument.

And plus the kid must go public to avoid your unnecessary speculation.

Heh. "Absent any evidence, how about I just make something up?"

Nice.

Bingo, brother smails. This is not about church attendance. Ryan Kessman was not kicked out for drinking coffee. I'm not saying this cause I don't think leaders of the church or BYU can be criticized, but because this is the only logical explanation.

Is that the Protocol? I've got to be honest. I'm not sure how the Bishop-Honor Code relationship works. I've always been under the impression confessions to Bishops are confidential. Do bishops report transgressions to the honor code office?

well, besides the fact the honor code office said it had nothing to do with the honor code.

If the bishop pulls an EE and chooses not to go through the HC, then the HC will not know the reason.

Gimme a break. I clearly stated this was hypothesis. Are you suggesting I can't even suggest there's a more logical explanation, because that would imply I'm judging the guy.

Do you believe he was kicked out of school because of 60% church attendance? Seriously?

If it did all go down the way the Trib and Daddy say it did, then yes, BYU and/or this Bishop is to blame in this circumstance, but I would hope you'd be smart enough to recognize there are ALWAYS two sides to any controversy. In this case, we've only heard one side, and that's all we will ever hear. To fall hook, line, and sinker after hearing that one side is foolhardy at best.

For a message board whose posters tend to pride themselves on their intellect, I would expect more out of some of you. (again, I've only read 3 or 4 posts on the topic, and am projecting those opinions onto the rest of the board).

Where does 60% come from? The article says 6 times since the start of school in the Fall. That puts it down around 30% at most.

the article states 6 times out of 11. so 55%.

I am hypothetically guessing your head is up your butt, judge.

I had a Bishop at BYU call me into his office to ask me why I didn't go to Church. He told me he wouldn't sign my EE if I didn't attend. I told him I had only missed sacrament once the whole semester. He didn't believe me and made me say hi to him every Sunday for a month before he would sign my EE. I'm not surprised some might fight that time of crap instead of accomadate.

You're right. I'm a pioneer. I've officially broken the message board speculation barrier. Everyone please feel free now.

I love how many on this board are quick to accept the father's speculation (and let's be honest - it's speculation) as gospel, and criticize anyone who presents a more realistic scenario, even when they admitting they're speculating.

I'm not saying the kid committed fornication. If I was guessing, I would say it was more likely beastiality. I saw his picture - he just looks like that kind of guy.

Listen, people make mistakes. Good people commit a variety of sins. I'm one of them. I'm not out to hammer the kid. I hope everything works out for him and he uses the atonement in his life as I try to in mine. If people would just read the story and withhold judgment, I'd stay silent on the topic, but to just bash BYU and this bishop without ever hearing the other side is flat out wrong. Again, they could be completely at fault. But it just doesn't add up for me.

Wasn't that according to the father? He's obviously making his case, so I don't really trust his figures. That whole "didn't come in and ask for a calling" thing doesn't make sense, so I wonder if it means he didn't accept a calling.

From September - December there would be at least 16 Sundays.

Most seem very willing to take the kid's side, dismissing the Bishop as some kind of overbearing jerk. Oddly, I've met more jerk athletes (innumerable) than I have jerk Mormon Bishops (possibly one).

As I've said before, maintaining an EE is simple. Probably a breakdown in communication, in which case the student better do everything he/she can to fill the void.

And I tend to think you're a dirty old man.

One of us is probably right.

<Hypothetically speaking of course>

Oh, so now bad people only commit one type of sin! Not only are they bad people, but their sins lack creativity.

What variety of sins do you commit? Give us some examples.

But you did.

I know for a fact one of us is right.

I will tell you what is shocking to me is that this is the first time anything like this has happened.

People with power run amuk all the time. There is a judge up here in Davis County that if you get in front of him, don't bother getting an attorney. Whatever your attorney and the prosecutor work out, the judge ingores it and throws the book at the person.

I have heard both non-mormons and mormons talk about him and say he brings his orthodox mormon view to every case he judges. In other words, justice is a hell of a lot more important than mercy.

I just hope this thing coming out in the open isn't going to open up a whole new effort by the fundamentalists to nail those damn athletes that get special treatment.

Which one?

I seriously don't know the answer, which I guess would make it the former?

That said, knowing you're old and have a 20-something cheerleader for your avatar weirds me out.

I guess I think we both might be right.

I used the word 'dick' once on a message board.

I understand why it might weird you out. When I was young a lot of things I do now would have wierded me out. Based on my beliefs about old people, I am surprised I can walk and chew gum at the same time.

The fact that I worked with his insanity does not mean he isn't insane. He seemed really concerned that I refused to go to Family Home Evening but couldn't rationalize that as a reason to withhold my E.E. The lack of trust from a Bishop was sad, especially when he implied inspiration but lacked the truth.

But you did it anyway because it was the easiest means to an end. Then I bet you moved to another ward.

This is a great point. All we have is one side of the story, yet so many on this board rush to condemn the Bishop & SP as mullahs. Whatever - I agree you are far more likely to encounter an arrogant, jerk college athlete than an overbearing, jerk BYU Bishop.

Look, anybody who went to BYU knows that nobody has good church attendance as a student, and that nobody gets kicked out for "poor attendance". Since speculation seems to be today's drink, I'd bet all I have that this bishop did all he could to keep this kid in school.

I went to a Utah Grizzlies hockey game about a decade ago. They had the hot tub set up outside the glass. I watched some old drunk guy ogle the girls in bikinis. I had a similar experience at a Red Rocks (wife = former gymnastics coach...don't judge me) meet with some creepy old guy checking out the gymnasts.

Listen, I've got hormones. I think. But old dudes should stick to checking out old chicks. That ought to be a law or something.

Ok.

Personally, I think the kid confessed to believing in UFO's and told Bishop Childs that he wanted to run away to a nudist colony. Therefore, Childs was totally justified in pulling his endorsement, and the HC office didn't get involved.

There, now the story finally makes sense. Thanks for "freeing" us, Smails.

How much would you like to bet. This isn't CB so we can put $50 on it.

In order for the Bishop to have had to do all he could to keep this kid in school, the kid would have to have broken one of God's commandments and done so repeatedly. Do we have a bet.

Now i understand your origninal post. You seem to have a thing worrying about others and their sexual needs. When and where and at what age they are appropriate.

Are you a male or a mormon gal that grew up and had her Dad unlock her chastity belt on her wedding night.

Listen, I'm pretty sure (okay at least I think) I'll still recognize God's finer creations when I'm 60+ (your age I'm assuming). I don't feel it's personally appropriate to use a picture of one as my avatar now. I certainly hope I don't when I'm your age.

I've thought it was creepy for a long time, but I've withheld comment until you opined about my cranium being up my anus. I figured since our relationship is that personal now, I could feel free to express my feelings.

Do what you want. I just think it's creepy. That's all.

I'd put that story at about even odds with him being kicked out of school for 60% church attendance.

Hey, if you feel that way that is fine. I think it is creepy that you even care.

Since we will never have to be roommates, I don't think it matters.

Then you must think the kid and his father
 

are stupid enough to go to the stake president to try and overrule? They surely knew what the bishop would have told the stake president.

I tend to believe the kid. I think it was a power struggle between the two.

Under my hypothesis, the kid told his father it was for church attendance, and the bishop and stake president wouldn't tell the father otherwise due to confidentiality. In that scenario, the father isn't lying to the newspaper. He's telling them what he's been told by his son. If you think about it, it makes a lot of sense.

Again, I'm not even suggesting my hypothesis is correct. You could be right about it just being a power struggle. Without knowing anything about the story, I'm going to lean towards the bishop's discretion. Bishops are human, they are all different, and they certainly make errors, but I just can't fathom there is a bishop out there with such poor judgment as to have made the determination that the father has outlined.

It didn't happen that way...whatever happened.

Non-disclosable sources now verify it is simply a power struggle. The kid lost and the bishop won.

How do you know those sources are telling the truth. How do we know they are being objective. Those sources could be lieing.

Perhaps the source you are talking about has a daughter that had improper relationships with the kid.

When it gets down to it, no one should make any judgement on this until the Bishop and the Stake President make a clear and definitive statement.

Until then believe nothing, except that priesthood leaders are to be followed and not questioned.

Well, according to smails, the kid is probably selling his soul on craig'slist while running the Hillary for President campaign out of his closet.

Non-dislosable sources. Damn! I stand corrected.

May the athlete who plays a sport I don't care about, with a name I had never heard before, that I can't remember now, that I don't wish to even take the time to look up again, be added to the martyr list somewhere between Stephen and Hyrum Smith.

I have sources who've verified Bronco Mendenhall is one of the 3 Nephites. No, I can't disclose who's told me that, but I believe them.

What exactly would your non-disclosable source find out about the situation? Did they give the Bishop truth serum on a scout overnighter?

Confidentiality will keep the other side of the story from ever being told.

I also probably ought to break the news to you - racist LA cops didn't plant the bloody glove.