Utah HP tasers John Gardner
 

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/u...rist&printer=1

This sucker should never work again. This is outrageous.

I don't know what you think the cop did wrong. Any time you get a traffic ticket the police can arrest you or they can release you on a summons, which you have to sign as acknowledgment that you will appear on the court date indicated. If you won't sign then the officer arrests you.

Here, the guy wouldn't sign. The officer orders him out and attempts to arrest him. He tells him to place his hand behind his back which is a perfectly lawful command. The guy says no then tries to walk away. The officer could have tackled him, taken his legs out with a baton, etc to effect the arrest. Reasonable force can be used to make an arrest. I think he actually employed the least harmful tactic he had available. If he tackles him he risks being injured. A gun was not called for at that juncture.

Help me understand what is improper here. You sign your ticket or you get arrested, period. You disobey the lawful command of an officer who is arresting you, expect you are going to be subdued. Looks proper to me. Maybe I have missed something.

You get arrested for failing to sign a ticket? That's absurd. And then you get tasered? Perhaps in your part of Talibanistan that seems right but it seems wrong to me. And the commanding officer apparently is reviewing the situation. What harm is there if a person doesn't sign it?

Geeze, from ticket to arrest and tasering.

The guy may have had a legit argument, but he went about it the wrong way. Signing a ticket is not admitting guilt. Can't say I feel sorry for him. The officer gave plenty of warning and was clear in his requests/instructions.

I think having the citizen sign the ticket shows that the cop did his job the right way. It keeps the cop in check. Among other things.

What is the cop supposed to do if he won't sign the ticket? Let him go on his merry way?

You didn't know that? Whenever you are released on a summons your signature is your promise to appear. Otherwise you get arrested and a magistrate makes a decision on bail. It is a criminal offense.

So when the officer tries to make the arrest and the guy disobeys, heads back to his car to leave and reaches into his pocket.....what is the officer supposed to do? This belligerent kids does this to himself. The part that amazed me was then this moron gets up off the ground and approaches the officer from behind. Wow. When I saw that part of the video I was cringing and thinking this guy is about to get acquainted with Mr. Baton.

When the cops pull you over or tell you to do anything, you do it. These guys get killed in the course of traffic stops. That is just common sense. This kid had none.

I will say that I think the officer orders him out of the car too soon. I think the better course is to try and calm him down and explain that signing is not an admission of guilt, but once he orders him out (which he is well within the law to do) to effect and arrest, what follows is created by the kid. My guess is that if he doesn't resist the officer puts him in cuffs, explains the choice to him again and the kids signs the stupid ticket.

My daughter got a speeding ticket on Sunday. she was also given a warning ticket for not finding her registration in short enough time. Some of these officers are one step above the TSA. A little bit of power and a gun and it goes to their head.

Why wouldn't the officer tell him how fast he was going? Then he could decide whether to sign the ticket. What is wrong with a citizen asking what he specifically is being cited for? 5, 10, 15, 30 miles over the limit?

The officer was on an ego trip.

I'll agree that the cop did appear to be on an ego trip.

It seemed like the clip jumped a bit in a couple of places. I'm wondering if we saw/heard everything that went down prior to the dude stepping out of the car.

I agree with you that the kid was a retard and the officer was technically correct, but why does the cop have to be such a dick? Why not tell the kid how fast he is going? Why not explain that failure to sign will result in his arrest before simply ordering him out of the vehicle. It did not have to escalate to this point.

It's this arrogant, disrespectful, "I AM the law" and "do it because I say so" attitude this officer and many others like him display that I have a problem with. I realize that they have a dangerous job and I appreciate what they do, but they have to remember they are servants of the people and should use a little more restraint and common sense. IMO, this officer abused his power. A little more Andy Taylor is in order at times.

As for tasers, I like to see ute fans get tased as much as the next guy :) , but I think they're too quick to use them some times.

Question for lawyers: was the officer's search of the vehicle legal? It looked illegal to me.

I asked my brother-in-law about this today, as he is a Sheriff's Deputy. He has seen the video on youtube and told me that the officer was a jackass and didn't need to do what he did.

Matt (my BIL) said that the trooper didn't have to tell the guy how fast he was going and that the best thing he could have done was to write on the ticket that the guy refused to sign the ticket and let the guy be on his way. When the judge would see that the guy refused to sign the ticket, the driver would have had the book thrown at him and there would have been absolutely nothing the driver could have said to make it better for himself.

Both parties were dickheads, according to Matt.

I like this assessment.

The cop may not have been legally required to tell the guy how fast he was going, but every time I've been pulled over for speeding the cop has told me by how much I exceeded the speed limit. What's the big deal?

Like Il Pad's BIL said, not requiring the the guy to sign the ticket does not mean you let him go scot-free. The cop has the entire incident on tape... why does the driver signing a piece of paper change that at all?

The guy was a jerk, but the cop had nothing to lose by letting him drive off, except for his pride. Tasering someone in the back is just wrong. If the guy is advancing towards you, maybe the use of a taser is justified, but the cop's safety was not in question.

Perhaps some of you lawyers know about this:

Wasn't the taser only legalized because it is preferred in situations when a gun is the alternative? Isn't it then only supposed to be used when a gun would have otherwise been used? I'm constantly reading stories about people being tasered for trivial things. If a cop needs a taser in order to subdue someone, that cop needs to go back to the academy. If a cop uses a taser on an already subdued or compliant person, the cop needs to be fired immediately.

In this case I don't it was justified at all, in fact I jumped a bit when it went off -- never expected it to be used so quick. And this was a routine traffic stop for speeding, unless the guy starts getting physical with the officer there is no reason for this situation escalating to that extent. I have little sympathy for the driver, though, c'mon how hard is it to follow a few simple instructions?

That said, there are cases where a subject can be passive aggressive, which is not punching or attacking the officer, but at the same time applying force to prevent the officer from doing what he is trying to do (like apply handcuffs -- if the subject is holding his arm and resisting the cop pulling it back behind his back). This is the kind of scene that makes for the teevee news footage that looks like police brutality because the guy may already be on the ground and is not punching or anything like that, yet the officer(s) have to really be forceful in order to get the subject to comply. The job is not done until he is cuffed -- he could pop up and run off at any time.

She gave him permission to search. She could have said no.

I saw the kid interviewed on CNN. What a smarmy weenie. The guy says he thought the cop had pulled a gun on him. That's a load of crap. If you think a guy is holding a gun on you, you don't turn your back on that person and casually walk away from him. You stop, you get your hands out of your pockets, and you beg the guy not to shoot you.

I'm not justifying the cop's actions and not saying the kid deserved to be tasered, but there is no doubt that the kid is a total dick.

i'm probably jumping in way too late here, and i haven't read the whole thread, but was it an unreasonable request for the officer to at least tell him how fast he was going? the kid was justified in at least knowing that before he signed, at the same time, the kid could have been a bit more cooperative.. both are at fault..

alright, i read the thread... all my questions answered. great points by all.. carry on. :)

Was the kid saying the sign didn't say 40? Cause that was obviously false.

I guess I didn't catch that. I thought he just said I'm going to search the vehicle.

The dipshit shouldn't have kept on putting his hands in his pocket. That's one of the biggest no-no's when being pulled over by a Police officer, especially when said dipshit is ignoring repeated requests to keep his hands out of his pockets.

He's lucky that all that happened was a simple tasering.

I was fully prepared to side with the cop on this one, as I had wathced the weenie that was arrested on CNN and thought he came across like a whiny pansy. Viewing this video, however, and putting asisde the techinical issues, I am shocked by how quickly this cop tasers the driver. THe driver is a jerk and seems to think he is in a trial instead of on the side of the road talking to a cop with an attitutde, but even so, he got tasered very quickly, with very little provocation. This cop needs some more training.

Btw, what was thisa stupid driver thikning? DId he think that belligerent non-ccoperation would persuade the cop that he shouldn't hand out a ticket? What did he think he could achieve by his behavoir? THe driver needs some common snese.

the driver was a moron, but the hp's reaction was laser fast and he needs more training.

I suspect a quiet talking to, would have prevented the event from escalating. It almost seemed as if the cop wanted it to escalate so he could play with his toy.

One of the regular posters on utefans is a cop (he goes by Officer Swoop). He posted the video there and titled it something like "When an attitude meets a bigger attitude with a badge."

He thought the cop handled it poorly as well.

Lesson learned for me: It's just best to comply with what the cop requests so he won't have a reason to taser me.

I agree. Regardless of the dickness of the driver, the cop is the one trained to deal with those situations, and responsible for a peaceful outcome. Cops should know how to de-escalate a situation, and should be nicer than the average person. "He started it" is not a valid argument.

You actually make a great point about the cop is supposed to de-escalate the situation. But I'll still comply just to be safe, ya know?

I certainly don't blame you, and tend to do the same, but being extra nice to cops so that you don't risk getting illegally assaulted isn't exactly how it's supposed to work.

I saw American Gangster this afternoon though, and despite all the taser abuse lately things seem better than they used to be.

There is a fine line between being nice to a dickhead cop and respecting his authority. I have the ability to walk that line. :)

Cops can search incident to an arrest.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/s010.htm

I'm not a lawyer.

Alhtough I don't deal a lot with cops, my partner handles police misconduct cases; needless to say, I don't have any sort of blind reverence for cops. I thought the driver was asking for it. You don't turn your back on a cop asking you to put your hands behind your back. He was ignoring the cop, walking back to the car - once he reaches the car, who knows what he's going to do?

I'm okay with the cop tasering a whiner like that guy. He's probably a Ute, anyway.

Notice he's driving a mini-van. That increases the odds of him being a Y fan exponentially.

Looks like a Durango to me.

I looked again and you are right. It is a Durango.

He may very well be a Ute.

But no goatee. Hmmm, this is a tough one.

He was clean-shaven, well-spoken, and a bit "gentle" on CNN, so that tells me Y fan.

The citizen wasn't following instructions, but the cop flipped out.

I agree with those who've said that it seems like the cop wanted to use his taser. It wouldn't bother me in the least if he lost his job.

it doesn't bother me in the least the guy got tasered. he deserved it.

I'm not going to comment on whether the cop was right or wrong, because without walking in his dangerous shoes everyday, it's hard for me to make a judgement. But I have walked in the driver's shoes and I chose not to act like a dickhead. And I didn't get tasered. Funny how that works.

But you must admit that your attitude is tacit approval of a police state. The cop knew his job was going to be potentially dangerous, but he still took it. He has a responsibility to serve and protect the citizens of his jurisdiction, and to uphold the constitution. Being a dick isn't illegal. Tasering someone without provocation is.

The cop is the professional, and relying upon the "I can't judge until I walk in his moccasins" mantra doesn't work for me.

The cop's training is and should be to de-escalate a rather simple matter. The tasering should be the last resort not his quasi-first resort. In the hands of a good attorney, the citizen will be compensated and the cop stands to lose his job.

He should have simply explained the consequences of not signing. The cop was trigger happy.

Like I said, the cop may or may not have been in the wrong. I can't speak to that.

I will even agree that the officer was in the wrong for the purposes of this discussion. That doesn't change my overall sentiment that the guy deserved to be tased. At some point, people have to be held responsible for their actions rather than blaming anyone and anything for the misfortune in their lives.

Was the cop power hungry? Possibly. Did the cop make a grave mistake that could cost him his job? Perhaps.

Could the situation have been avoided if the guy would have simply complied with the police officer's requests? (requests that wouldn't have hurt anybody and were very simple to obey, btw - it's not as if the cop was asking the guy to perform fellatio on him) Definitely.

Why test the cop? It's just ludicrous to even go there. It's like treating a McDonald's employee rudely and then being shocked when he spits a loogie in your hamburger.