I support the protest of the olympic torch processions
 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle3716291.ece

Note the many pro-China Chinese protestors.

Boy this is a massive embarrassment for the Chinese govt. and pro-Communist Chinese, shining a bright light on their human rights abuses.

It used to the that the GOP stood against communism. The GOP places business interests first, so there will be no protest from the GOP about anything China does (as long as isn't tarriffs or currency issues).

I can't decide if it is better to boycott the olympics, or to have all or many of our athletes symbolically protest the Chinese govt. while there (such as black gloves raised in the air, or black arm-bands, or some other public symbol).

It was reported a little bit ago that the Chinese Embassy in SF bussed over some pro-China demonstrators. Pathetic.

The San Francisco leg of this farcical torch relay has been ridiculous.

The IOC needs to stop the international portion of this torch relay because all this coverage is damaging the Olympic brand and generating absolutely NO goodwill.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/...ics/index.html

It looks like every single House representative except one GOPer voted for this resolution supporting Tibet.

That republican is Ron Paul.

It seems that the link in this post of yours above contradicts your comment in this post, eh?

Yes, IPU it appears to on its face.

But the rubber does not hit the road in a non-binding resolution.

Fair enough.

As for your comment about boycotting the Olympics or having the athletes protest, I'd much rather see the athletes protest in some manner. I have a tough time accepting a punishment for the athletes on the Olympic team because of politics. The athletes haven't done anything but work hard to fulfill a dream of competing.

I say that because I remember thinking it was wrong when Carter called for a boycott of the '80 Olympic games. I think it would be more effective to embarrass the Communist regime on the world stage by seeing the athletes do something like wear a patch of the Tibetan flag.

Boycotting the Olympics punishes nobody but athletes who have spent the past 4 years working their butts off.

Exactly. If you really want to help Tibet, messing with the AMERICAN torch bearers doesn't help much.

Which nationality would be the best to mess with if the goal is to help Tibet?

Nitpick, nitpick, nitpick.

The point is that attacking the torch runners (and I disagree with those that did it in Paris) is a meaningless gesture.

For a meaningless gesture, it sure is getting a lot of media attention and spurring lots of discussion on the Tibet issue.

What would you suggest the pro-Tibet crowd do in order to be meaningful?

Lingo would like Richard Gere to have a press conference instead.

I won't say why.

Just like bombing a crowded marketplace gets a lot of media attention. The ends don't always justify the means.

Hold rallies, do interviews with the media. There are plenty of ways to advance your cause that don't involve attacking innocent people.


Says the guy with a shirtless man as his avatar.

Hmm.

So are you now saying that the attacks on the torch are not meaningless, they are just unjustified?

You remind me of the line in Princess Bride, when Inigo says, "why you keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means..."

First you say that the protests are meaningless, then you switch to a Machiavellian "ends justify the means" approach. You emphasize AMERICAN, yet when I ask you to give an alternative ethnicity, you say I am nitpicking.

You are truly NOT a cunning linguist.

As for your suggestion to hold a rally, that is a great idea. The last big rally in China was held in Tiananmen Square...

They are meaningless. China doesn't give a rat's ass about what happens to torch bearers.

No I didn't. I argued AGAINST an "ends justify the means" approach. Work on your reading comprehension.

I may have capitalized the word "American," but I did not mean to imply it only mattered that the torch runners today were American. And I clarified that point by saying those runners in Paris (French, obviously) did not deserve to be attacked, either. I'm sorry if that was too difficult for you to understand.

But you are a clever plagiarizer. Though I suppose I should give you partial credit for a slightly new twist on the vulgar play on words.

I can't recall where I said it should be in China. Would you mind finding that for me?

China doesn't care. Yet China is shipping out their own protestors to the sites.

Again, JL is in a war, with a squirt gun.

Frankly, I am growing tired of your foul language.

You drop f-bombs and other profanities at an alarming rate.

I expect more from the son of a seminary teacher.

Also, I am a bit torn, because my fraternal love for you prompts me to report you to the BYU Idaho standards office. Someone needs to help you now before you completely go off the deep end.

Excellent, Triplet caves in by resorting to faux-mullah behavior.

It's been nice chatting with you.

Again, this could have been accomplished sans attacking innocent torch bearers.

I don't suppose you condone this type of behavior?

Faux mullah? Sorry if I am not enamored with your foul mouth. Does your dad know you speak like that? I doubt it.

It seems that you are the only faux quantity here if you talk like that during the week yet pretend to be worthy on Sundays.

I am just trying to help you. Don't shut me out.

High entertainment. Please let me know how else you plan to reclaim my black, black soul.

I don't think you are any worse than anyone else. I just think you could ease up on the f-bombs and other profanity. Are you comfortable with that kind of language?

I know you are just trying to get your point across, but the ends don't always justify the means.

What on earth are you talking about? I've used that word exactly one time here on CG, and it was not when I was "trying to get my point across."

That is exactly one more time than you should have used it. I cant believe you are trying to justify it. I am not condemning you, mind you, but please at least be honest with yourself. We all make mistakes.

All I am saying is that you seem to have a short fuse and resort to profanity to lash out sometimes. Maybe my bringing it to your attention will cause you to pause next time before you lash out on the board, at home, to your kids, etc....maybe not. Like I said, I am only trying to help here. Dont shoot the messenger.

lol!

Thank you for your concern. I try to keep my language more clean.

what's your avatar all about?

I'm not going to lie. It isn't strictly concern for you. It is also me wanting to be able to read through threads without being assaulted by vulgarities when you get mad.

That being said, just remember to tone it down. If you are feeling particularly upset or excited, try using a safe word instead of falling into old bad habits.

Good luck and let me know if I can help.

*fist tap*

Rocks, brother.

maybe memorizing a favorite hymn or high school choir song would help

After reading this artcile, I am leaning in favor of the USA boycotting the olympics.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle3724308.ece

Basically, if an athlete protests or otherwise demonstrates, he/she will likely be expelled from the games. Such as after winning, running around the track with a Tibet flag.

It's interesting how Bush is being exposed as a leader with no moral leadership. He supposedly came in with an agenda to promote freedom. But he is embracing and will continue to embrace evil. It's sickening.

We should be asking why China got the games in the first place. But the fact is they were awarded them and boycotting the games punishes our athletes more than it punishes China. I don't like athletes being used as political pawns especially when it is athletes who only get a chance to accomplish their goal once every four years. For most of them, a boycott will mean a lifetime of work wasted to make a political point. Most won't make it back in 4 years.

Ironically, the rules that might result in an athlete's expulsion resulted from a protest by two American Athletes against American' domestic policies.

Does it look like I care?

I'm supposed to weigh an athlete's feelings against murder, torture, imprisonment, communism, totalitarianism, fascism.

They say "sports transcends politics." But what that means is money (sports) trumps human rights (politics).

God, I hate the idea of being more concerned about selfish athletes than people who are dying under oppression.

Another point: how do you ever put pressure on a country when you always accede to their demands?

Make some demands and say "if you dont' take these steps, we can't in good conscience play games in your country and pretend these things aren't going on and don't matter and are less important than sports."

This is from the Olympics' organization's website.

What about what China is doing fits the Olympic movement and spirit?

Wow. That is shocking. They can't even hang up a Tibet flag in their dorm room. I think I have lost what little respect I had for the Olympics.

I agree. I feel so good for those people who have been oppressed for so long who now have the opportunity to humiliate China by something as silly as dousing the Olympic torch. It is a small act, but it is having a powerful effect.

I think China is going to regret ever having invited the world to visit. They are unprepared for the scrutiny they are about to receive worldwide. They will try to control that scrutiny by limiting reporters' access to certain areas, but then the reporters will report that their access has been limited. Inevitably, several will gain access to areas they are not supposed to see and will broadcast to the world. What will China do when Tibetan monks or members of Falun Gong fill Tiananmen Square in protest? Will China let them protest in front of live video cameras, or will they arrest them? What if Falun Gong members then light themselves on fire in front of the world? What happens when a prominent Chinese citizen is interviewed and stands up to his government? This is going to get wildly out of control for China, and their reaction may dictate their future.

That said, I am more torn on the idea of boycotting the Olympics. I think it is better that the US attend, despite the human rights issues in China. The US presence simply adds to the magnifying glass China will be under. It enhances the media presence and US interest in the games. Furthermore, China is on the path to becoming a superpower. They will get there with or without our say so. I find it critical to befriend them now, and be a helping hand that guides them in the right direction. Alienation comes at a heavy price, too heavy. Certainly that doesn't mean ignoring what China is doing and has done, but a boycott is a heavy hammer that may smash our relations into pieces that can't be put back together.

As for the president attending, I think he should be bringing pressure to bear on the Chinese to address Tibet and human rights issues right now. China is desperate for good media, and they must know that if Tibet isn't addressed now, the scrutiny is only going to grow. They could respond to Bush's non-public requests. If they don't, Bush will be in a tough spot, and I am not convinced on the merits of attending the opening ceremonies v boycotting them just yet.

I see. Appeasement. Thanks for playing.

If I boycott MikeWaters, will that result in him not trolling anymore?

I pray you aren't comparing a bombing in a marketplace to assaulting the torch bearer. They aren't out to hurt the guy holding the torch. Quite clearly, they are after the torch itself. It is a small act, but it is having huge repercussions, and I absolutely respect those protesters for their acts.