Civil War Prophecy
We may have discussed this already; maybe we haven't. The teacher of my Civil War history class mentioned Section 87 today in class, naturally leading once more to the conclusion that Joseph Smith was clearly a prophet (when at BYU . . .). I'd like to hear what everybody here thinks of this section, here reproduced in full:
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls; 2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place. 3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations. 4 And it shall come to pass, after many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war. 5 And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation. 6 And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full fend of all nations; 7 That the cry of the saints, and of the blood of the saints, shall cease to come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, from the earth, to be avenged of their enemies. 8 Wherefore, stand ye in holy places, and be not moved, until the day of the Lord come; for behold, it cometh quickly, saith the Lord. Amen. |
I taught an investigator, he was the American ex-pat manager of the apt. complex we lived at in Guam. He became very argumentative during the discussion and said if JS is a prophet where are his prophecies? So I turned to this. He was unimpressed.
A week later we were meeting with a different investigator in our apt. Through the front door we saw a covered body on a gurney being wheeled out. The argumentative investigator had hung himself. I later found out that his body was unclaimed in the morgue for months. I felt bad for him. And as is common I think in such situations, I wondered if I might have contributed to it, in some small way. So that is how the verses are colored for me. |
Prophecy has very little to do with predicting the future, at least not in the sense usually considered.
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And Joseph wrote this in the Church History in 1832 (History of the Church, 1:301). It was also published in 1851 in the original version of the Pearl of Great Price. |
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I've never really used this as an evidence of JS as a prophet, but it is pretty interesting. Those that have made objections, please clarify, I'm not getting it.
--prophecy not a prediction of future events --this prophecy wasn't accurate |
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I think it is pretty accurate, which can be seen by SU's claim that it must have been dressed up (who would dress up something to be wrong?). The only that didn't fairly happen is that it didn't turn into a world war, although that claim is sort of ambiguous, and it could still be seen as having come to pass. Otherwsie, it looks pretty good, I think.
I think there is some historical context to suggest that SO Carolina was seen by many as the likley place of rebellion, and in fact they had threatened it before 1860. Even so, it is a pretty good call on his part. |
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From what I know of history and JS, this prophecy was not far-fetched. In other words, a man who paid attention to current events in 1832 could read this prophecy and says "yeah, that could happen" (south carolina, war between states).
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I think it's a little more substantial than what any old body in 1832 could have whipped out. |
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There was a Civil War, due to animosities that had built up for decades, but it was not Armageddon as he seemed to believe. |
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200,000 or so blacks fought for the Union during the Civil War. It was also interesting to learn the extent to which slaves pushed the emancipation issue. They forced Union armies to respond with policies by rushing to their camps. Union attitude slowly evolved from refusing to return them, to confiscating slaves used in the war effort, to confiscating slaves whose owners supported the war effort, to emancipation en masse; none of that would have happened if it were not for slaves leaving their masters behind in substantial numbers. |
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Joseph Smith's Polygamy on one side, Civil War Prophecies on the other. |
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I didn't say they weren't worthy of discussion, they just aren't worthy of being part of some standard church curriculum. IMO, one of the reasons (I didn't say the only reason) the church doesn't really go into detail about Joseph Smith's multiple relationships is simply because the details just aren't that good or reliable. There's too many "fill in the blanks" that aren't resolved and can unnecessarily be taken the worst way possible. |
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It's the Adam-God Complex. |
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Even if these would have been easy guesses (and I don't know how easy such guesses would have been for those not benefited by over a hundred years of hindsight, but I won't labor this point for the sake of the argument), isn't it just a little bit remarkable that they all happened? A team that wins 12 games in which they had a 80% chance of winning ought to be ranked in the top 10. Joseph Smith should at least be ranked if you insist on keeping him out of the BCS. |
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Your contributions are only further evidence of how difficult the prophecy game really is. At least the gloom and doom global warming prophets have some science to back them up. U.S foreign policy is geared to preventing the U.S. being drawn into any conflict due to some agressive action by Israel (when Israel acts, we do not follow; there are too many interests at stake). There simply is not a realistic scenario out there that would bring about the actions you prophesy. Try again Mr. McLellan. |
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