Church does not favor illegal imm. crackdown
 

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_8062989?source=rss

I wonder how this would play on CB.

I can't say I am happy about this, but I am not real upset.

I personally find this compassion and ability to look the other way when it comes to a law of the land and yet are so strict in how they handle BYU.

Can we all admit the HC at BYU is more about controlling students than it is about morals and discipline.

Stop hijacking my thread!!!

They have time to explain this, but can't explain blacks and the priesthood.

Sorry, I didn't realize this was a thread to rehash the black and priesthood thing. I did post about it, immigrants on CB, but it seems no one wants to touch it.

Maybe they realize it is a thread about blacks and the priesthood which I didn't recognize.

I agree with them completely. Illegal immigration needs a solution, but compassion can't be thrown out the window either as many Republicans urge.

I'm not saying to deport all the illegals, but how does requiring people to obey the law lack compassion?

Illegal immigration is not about obeying the law. It is about figuring out what to do with those that are already here and obeying the law.

A common scenario in the illegal immigration debate: couple comes over the border illegally. They live in the US for years.....over a decade. In that time, both mother and father have 2 children in the states. The kids go to elementary school and are now in the junior high school. The kids are good kids and the parents just want the kids to go to college and get a good job. The parents do not pay income taxes, but nor will they be eligible for social security or welfare when they are older. They do pay sales tax. During their time here, they commit no crimes and basically are low key residents in their community. The kids are entrenched, have friends, speak English, and are normal junior high school kids.

IPU, so you are saying that in your BEST analysis, the most important issue, the most glaring problem here, is that 12 years ago, 2 people crossed the border illegally and so we must "obey the law" and kick them out? Uproot them, separate them from their kids, or force their kids, US citizens, to move to sub-standard living conditions? This is about obeying the law? Seriously?

It's a pity you don't post there anymore. This kind of stuff was the basis of some of your best work.

Notice I didn't say that I support deporting all the illegals. I think we should work with the law abiding illegals to do something to help them gain legal status.

I'm just trying to get Cali to explain his comment that many Repubs don't want to be compassionate. He made the accusation so I'm calling him out and the best way to get a liberal like him to explain himself is to make a comment like I did.

Agreed. We should welcome all illegals into the country, especially the violent criminal types, as many Democrats urge. Compassion.

Fair. No you did not say that. apologies.

I think that the answer to your question....the REAL answer.....can be found in the article. This is more an issue of latent racism than people being offended that someone didn't obey the law. As the NYC lawyer pointed out, if people are so up in arms about obeying the law, why don't we round up other similar non-violent offenders?

The overwhelming majority of economist agree that immigration helps our economy. While income taxes are NOT paid, sales taxes are paid. And these illegals cannot claim social security benefits when they are older.

US companies are already off-shoring more and more jobs because domestic labor is too expensive, so the argument that illegals take jobs doesn't ring very true. Americans are not applying for or wanting the jobs that most illegals do, anyway.

I think compassion would require any and all talk of any sort of sweeping deportation. Deportation is ridiculous. It doesn't work. Ideally, it is a great fix--let's find them and toss them out. Practically speaking, what a dumb idea. It makes as much sense as fighting "terror." Let's get over the fact they are here and figure out 2 main things: what to do with those that are already here and how to organize the continual future inflows of immigrants.

The person who lacks compassion is the one who is a dogmatist and cannot see the human aspect of the issue...in other words, "the law is the law....they broke they law....kick them out." That lacks compassion.

That is a tough one. How about this one relayed to me by a cop in Ut. Cty. Kid comes here with his parents. Has gotten three girls pregnant, 14 year olds. His Dad has left and gone back. Kid and mother is still here. One girls parents said he can't see his kid. He threatens them. Cops can't do anything because he hasn't broken any laws.

Yes, this is exactly the compassion that both Cali Coug and the First Presidency are asking for. Gimme a break.

The way I hear some people, in and out of the church, speak of "illegals" is shameful. The church is reminding us that they are people, some among our ranks. Sure there are thugs and criminals trying to get in, but many are like DDD described: folks just looking for a better life and a piece of the American Dream. It's easy to call them lawbreakers for coming in illegally when we are living in our plush homes with running water, full access to medical care, education and all the finer things in life. If we were living in the circumstances they were coming from, we might be tempted to "break the law" and enter illegally too.

That is also a tough one.

The major implication is two-fold....the kid (a minor?) impregnated 3 girls and he also threatened a parent who was not allowing him to see his child.

I dont see how any of those issues relate to deportation. Why deport illegals because they get their girlfriends pregnant? Do we have any legal ramifications at all for a US citizen who is a minor and gets his girlfriend pregnant? And then threatens the father because he wont let the kid see his child?

My final verdict....the inner racist whispers to you that this kid should be deported.

No worries.

I agree with what you've posted about those who don't pay income taxes and won't be able to receive social security benefits. These are just folks who want to better their lives.

One of the biggest problems that I see that is a result of illegal immigration is that there are billions of dollars going into Mexico as the illegals send money to their families and the corrupt Mexican government loves the extra money coming in, so it has no incentive to do anything about illegals crossing the border into the US. I don't have a solution to this other than putting the military at the border to discourage illegal crossings.

Tex, it is times like this when I am glad you are not real.

I dunno. That made me chuckle because it will undoubtedly get a better response from CaliCoug.

Just trying to match his penchant for distortion. I'm not as good at it as him, of course ...

How come no one says "Gimme a break" when someone says Republicans are compassionless SOBs?

Oh that's right. 'Cause they are. Nevermind.

Ladies and gentlemen, a startling, historical event has occurred. Tex has dissented from an official, public LDS position. I urge you to scan the archives here. This has never occurred. Tex has always cleaved perfectly to the iron rod of LDS orthodoxy and the party line. How telling that this breach has occured over the LDS Church calling for America to be be compassionate in its treatment of illegal aliens.

LOL, I have a son in law, a daughter in law, 6 grandchildren that have Latino blood in them. Yea, I am a racist. That is the easy one isn't it. Scare someone off from having an opinion by calling them a racist. I really thought you were more intelligent than resorting to that.

This point is a sound one. I recently saw a documentary called "Wetback" on one of the cable channels. It was really interesting. Followed a bunch of different illegals from South America as they made their way up to the Rio Grande. Very few made it all the way. Most were attacked, raped, lost limbs, or gave up along the way.

At the end of the doc, it had some interesting facts. "Remittances," or cash sent back South of the border, account for a huge majority of many Central American economies--in the billions, as IPU stated. That being said, illegals also spend over a billion dollars a year into our domestic economy, and continue to do the undesired work here. If they all left, our economy would stagnate, as many economists have already stated.

As historical as you agreeing with a public LDS position?

Did I?

You may be right. I can't think of ever agreeing with them before.

71, I was using "you" generically. I am not calling YOU a racist. Sorry if that did not come through. Your example wasnt even "yours," it was some policeman's, if I understand you correctly.

But technically, being related to latinos doesnt generally exculpate one from being a racist. Latinos and blacks can be racist, too, can't they?

I still stand by my initial comments, though. Those that would call for the deportation of the kid simply because he has impregnated 3 girls is likely just a racist. How would deporting the future father help anything? the kids need to have the dad in their life, don't they?

I've heard about that documentary and would like to see it.

First off I know the cop quite well and he is neither a racist or liar. The Church advised strongly one of these girls give up the kid for adoption. He didn't know the other situations well enough to know what advice was given. Thus the father out of the kids life. Quite frankly I think that was good advice. Good advice whether the father was an illegal or legal.

Yep, I would deport the kid. If a white kid who is legal had done the same thing I would advise cutting his dick off since he couldn't be deported.

Maybe I am not compassionate, but the racist accusation is crap.

It is really good. Not to get too graphic, but some of these people go through EXTREME lengths to hide their money, including one guy who had a small surgical procedure to hide his money so it would not be found when gangs attacked them en route to the border. I wont say where the money was hidden, but if you want to know, go click on junkie's website for 2 free CDs.

Along the way, most of these people know that they will either get raped, stabbed, robbed, or shaken down by crooked cops. As marsupial said, all of them are just trying for a shot at a decent quality of life....decent meaning running water, electricity, employment, and a better way for their kids.

One woman gets caught by the Migra on the US side. She tells the INS officer to please pull out his gun and put a bullet in her head. She preferred to simply die than go back to Central America and she begged him to at least afford her the chance to let her kids say that their mother died in America. The officer took off her cuffs and let her go.

I suggest watching it. Very interesting. Clearly this doc focuses on the law abiding immigrant trade. Those coming here to commit crime, smuggle drugs, etc,....are not part of the conversation and are not humanized.

71, the extreme nature of your proposed solution speaks for itself. In a thread about finding a compassionate solution, your proposal is ironic, especially coming off a comment lamenting my lack of intelligence.

IPU, this is the kind of example I think CaliCoug was referring to......lots of emotion, little of it compassionate.

This board seems to have a high population of non-racists. Glad to hear it. 71, where is your watch? Did your roommate steal it?

It may be, but my problem with Cali is that he thinks only Republicans are assholes.

I wouldn't deport that kid who impregnated three girls. I'd just cut his dick off.

Sounds like your argument is with the church, not me.

Hey- acting like Tex IS easy!

;)

Triplet Daddy answered your question perfectly. Republicans lose sight of the ball when they start throwing around the word "amnesty" as if it means "devil-worship." There are millions of great people here who came illegally, and there are millions more who would like to come and would use legal channels if they were available. But Republicans, by and large, are using scare tactics and hate-mongering to fight the immigration battle, which does nothing to help those already here or those who would be great contributors legally if we could devise a better system.

Not "only," just "primarily."

;)

I guess you are the only one allowed to attempt a little humor when a serious question comes up. You initially rendered a heart warming story to make a point. I agreed it is a tough issue and talked about another side.

What did I get for it. Called a racist. Since you can only appreciate your kind of humor, I will be serious. If the kid was legal I would wish like heck some form of punishment could be doled out. I just don't think it is good for any kid to be loose impregnating teenagers. Since the kid that is illegal has broken a law, something could be done in his case.

For the record if you would look back on CB you would see I supported Bush's proposal that got rejected. Even though my son who has a tile business went out of business because he couldn't compete. I told him to hire illegals, but he said it was against the law. I wish this statement came out from the church a year ago. He might be still in business.

Giving amnesty didn't work the last time it happened. And you do know who it was that pushed for it, right? An evil Republican.

Well, I would not agree that only republicans are that way. I find stupidity to be fairly non-partisan.

I still dont get the ire against the kid who impregnates 3 girls, as it relates to this discussion. I dont see any correlation at all. NBA players have impregnated more women than that. People do it all the time. Since when does deportation come up in that discussion? Why would it even be relevant?

That would have been a more interesting way to end Juno. Instead of pushing forward with the adoption, she should get deported because we find out all of a sudden that neither she nor her boyfriend are documented.

I can explain the ire directed at the kid from my point of view - I am the father of a 15 year old girl. By removing his unit, he couldn't impregnate another girl. And if NBA players are unwilling to support the kids they are having around the country, I'd do the same to them. It's all about taking responsibility for one's actions.

Never seen Juno, nor is there a desire to see it.

71, listen, I already said that I was using "you" generically, not speaking of YOU specifically. Obviously, I have found a button to push that works quickly, which is good to note for future conversations.

Once illegals start breaking laws, then I agree, deportation should be considered. I dont agree that it should be automatic. Case by case and nature of crime should be considered. Jaywalking? Littering? Probably not. Drug trafficking, murder, robbery, assault? Sure.

Since I have stirred you up a little, I am just going to lay it all out on the table right now for you.....I also believe that stuff spoken over the pulpit at General Conference is commandment, especially all worthy young males should serve a mission. Take that, sucker.

My daughters are only 3, so you are a little closer to the issue than I am right now.

But, candidly, as an owner of a "unit," I am opposed to any legislation that involves de-unitfication. That is a slippery slope I dont want to go down...