Do you believe being gay is a choice
 

If so, why would someone choose to be gay?

Stupid poll.

Homosexuality seems to be a spectrum combing environmental factors and occasionally aspects of personal choice. Such a wonderfully binary approach in a base 12 world.

This is a cop out. It's not hard, Archea. Let me ask it this way. Did you choose to be heterosexual?

Arch is right and it is hard. Let me ask you SU, do you believe EVERY person that lives a gay lifestyle is compelled without choice to do so?

I've never met a gay person that says it was a choice. Can we cite a single gay man who says it was his choice? There has to be one.

Again, the same could be said for heterosexuals; probably more so.

by the way "gay lifestyle" is an offensive phrase to gays. I found this out. They are considered the code words of bigots.

OK, then how about everyone who has gay sex exclusively? You get the point.

True, which only makes the point Arch is making.

Here is the better question: what is it about believing, for the vast majority, it is not a choice, is so difficult for some people? In other words, what is the psychological difficulty?

Gay people suck. :) Sorry, I couldn't resist.

From my point of view, it directly contradicts his point. since those factors occur on both sides, there's no point in emphasizing it only on one side and therefore declaring that the question is pointless. To me, this question is perfectly valid.

THat I can't answer. It seems pretty clear to me.

Archaea isn't making any point. He's taking the Fifth. What he wrote is incoherent.

Come one. Get out of your skin. Try to imagine a time in your youth when you were neutral in terms of sexual preference. The choice confronted you, and you chose heterosexual (or vice versa). Like you decided to major in English or History or Engineering in college.

Two questions: 1) Can you possibly imagine such a thing? 2) Why would someone confronted with such a choice (remember, in theory such a person is completely sexually preference neutral) choose to make their life so much more difficult when the crystal clear path of least resistance is being heterosexual?

Have you ever known a gay person who didn't have to overcome a lot of negative reaction, even hatred from family and friends, not to mention potential emploers, etc.? The very existence of this anti-gay Constitutional amendment illustrates the premise for my second question.

This is blather. It's vacuous. Devoid of meaning. Archaea, please address this problem speaking English in declarative sentences, absent weasel words.

Then what is bisexuality? choose to not care? what if you decide you have a preference but don't feel compelled? are you then gay? Look, I think most of it is genetic. In fact, I think the vast amjority of it is,. But nto all of it.

I'm not talking about bisexuals. You're needlessly complicating it. I'm talking about gays. But okay, have it your way. For that matter, did bisexuals choose to be such?

As I'm sure many of us are aware, sexuality isn't binary. Just about every animal is bisexual to some degree, and I imagine that it would be much more prevalent among humans if not for cultural taboos and whatnot. It therefore makes sense that people do, to at least a small degree, "choose" exclusive heterosexuality or exclusive homosexuality, although I very much doubt it is an active choice in any but perhaps a very small number.

I think there are few true bisexuals.

People who engage in sexual behavior with both genders are only bisexual if they really have no preference. Most people who play on both sides of the ball generally prefer one side or the other, making them either homosexuals who sometimes exhibit heterosexual behavior or heterosexuals who sometimes exhibit homosexual behavior.

I think this is right.

And this was exactly Arch's and Creekster point. They were both arguing that given the lack of nuance in SU's original poll question that there are some people along the spectrum that do choose even if the vast majority don't. It is a poorly written poll question. And Arch I think was objecting to that, but not the basic idea that the best empirical evidence suggests that for the vast majority it is not a choice.

BTW, I submit in the rare case someone might have no preference, if there's even such a thing, that's not a choice either.

Does someone who once practiced homosexuality, and now no longer does, count?

What are these "environmental factors"?

Sooner is correct. We're talking about PREFERENCE. Besides, absense of preference itself isn't a choice. Try to weasel all you want; Waters nailed it. For some people it's excruciating to just come out and admit what's self-evident--sexual preference is not a choice. It's easy to see why people can't bear to admit that.

Hmmm, sounds remarkably like an argument for the prophetic call of Joseph Smith. Could it be SU is rediscovering his Mormon roots?

When you define it that way then I am board with you (or at least I agree that the empirical evidence seems most consistent with your statement). The problem is your question was without nuance. Write a clearer question next time. Your experimental design sucks.

If anybody on this board thinks they know enough about behavioral genetics to determine the "cause" of homosexuality, please be kind enough to inform the worldwide scientific community concerning this amazing discovery.

That's TIC, by the way. The truth is that NOBODY understands what ultimately determines/drives/causes sexual preference. End of story.

Uterine environment and stuff like that, as far as I've read. I think the overwhelming evidence is that the most important environmental factors are prenatal.

I respect Tex for taking the position (setting aside how untenable it is) that sexual preference is a choice. He knows that position is essential for him and others with his views to take unless they are to abandon any pretence of being tolerant.

The alleged mystery seems to me wholly inconsistent with the moral certitude of those who would deny gays the right to marry or be members in good standing of their religion. I assume you're one of those.

I'll stick up for SU here. Sexual orientation is clearly not a choice for the vast majority of people. Even if there are rare exceptions, that minor caveat does not mean it isn't a fair question.

Did I say that?

Aha... Yes, I am familiar with that research. I misunderstood Archaea's comment.

I suppose that is fair enough but to me minor caveats are important. I'm about probabilities. I think the most common bigotry is Bayes Rule bigotry and I am pretty sure SU attends those meetings.

You assumed wrong...my brother is gay, and my views on the subject would probably be considered liberal by many with the "moral certitude" you mentioned.

My comment was wholly confined to the topic of the determination of sexual preference. I believe we could have a less strident & perhaps more productive discourse on all aspects of homosexuality if everyone would be willing to admit that we just don't fully understand what "causes" sexual preference.

Suppose the poll was worded slightly differently ("Do you believe that SSA is a choice for the vast majority of gays?"). Would that really make that much of a difference in the outcome? Or the point that SU is most likely trying to make?

I can't believe you didn't even like my Bayes Rules joke. It would for me (although I didn't answer the poll and usually don't in general). I would have went from a "I can't answer that question because I don't know what it means" to a "strong No it not a choice or at least NO, I believe it is a low probability that it is a choice." Did it matter for anyone else? I don't know except maybe Creekster and Arch.

While pinpointing the exact "cause" of SSA is elusive, I think there is plenty of evidence that it is not a simple choice.

Sorry. It's late I guess. Nice job.

Meh. We engineers are accustomed to rounding off our numbers.