you know the jazz fans that moaned the choice of williams over paul...
 

back in that first season?

They were right.

Come on. Williams has hardly been a bust.

Williams is all-star caliber. But Paul could end up as a top 5 PG in basketball history.

Excellent trolling effort. Really, you almost had me.

In the history of blown chances on draft day, this one is not even on the radar.

The point is that there was a debate. At this point, among most fans, there is not a debate. Paul has clearly pulled ahead.

Williams has taken Utah to the Western Conf. finals, so there's really nothing for Utah fans to bemoan. Both are great players. It would be interesting to compare the two today had Sloan not held Williams back his rookie season while Byron Scott was letting Paul loose.

so when/if the jazz beat the hornets in round two you going to change your tune?

And last year after going to the WCF's and really elevating his game, there were many who said Deron Williams was the better of the two.

Honestly, I don't think Utah made a bad choice in picking Williams. IMO, this one isn't going to be settled until their careers are over, and even then it will be a debate. I believe Williams will be durable enough to play around 3 more years than Paul, and I honestly feel like Utah's title chances are better for the long haul than New Orleans.

It is hard to argue against Paul right now, as New Orleans has the best record in the West. I would definitely say he is "in the lead" if you will between the two, but as Lebowski said, this is hardly a draft day blunder.

Williams has a much better cast around him. Paul is a magician.

Williams is strong, but Paul is spectacular.

If you combined Gary Payton, Allen Iverson, and John Stockton, you get Chris Paul.

good thing you covered your bases so there is no way dwill can pass cp3 in your mind. Arguments where you can never be wrong are always fun.

Much better? You can't be serious. Not sure how anyone could say that:

C
Chandler 11.8 PPG, 11.9 RPG, 1.1 BPG, 62% FG
Okur 14.4 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 0.4 BPG, 44% FG
Edge: Hornets

PF
West 20.3 PPG, 9.0 RPG, 1.3 BPG, 48% FG
Boozer 21.6 PPG, 10.6 RPG, 0.5 BPG, 55% FG
Edge: Even

SF
Stojakovic 16.2 PPG, 4.3 RPG, 1.2 APG, 44% FG
Kirilenko 11.1 PPG, 4.8 RPG, 4.1 APG, 50% FG
Edge: Hornets

SG
Peterson 8.1 PPG, .9 APG, 39% 3P%
Brewer 12.1 PPG, 1.8 APG, 21% 3P%
Edge: Jazz

I'm serious. And you have destroyed your credibility by saying that NO has a better supporting cast than the Jazz.

You are in a group of one.

I showed you numbers, give me something to support your argument.

Scottie, for one, last I heard, there are more than 5 people who play for the Jazz and the Hornet. Second, numbers rarely tell the story.

No shit, Sherlock.

LOL, okay.

All I'm saying is people are up in the night if they think Williams has a much better supporting cast than Paul, the numbers just don't support that. They (New Orleans) have a really good team, as evidenced by their best record in the west this far into the season.

Waters is up in the night. When you factor in defense, Paul's supporting cast might be even better than that of Deron.

On offense, Okur >>> Chandler
On defense, Chandler >>>>>>> Okur

On offense, Boozer >> West
On defense, West >>>>> Boozer

On offense, Peja >> AK
On defense AK >>> Peja

On offense MoPete = Brew
On defense Brew > MoPete

Utah likely has an edge on the bench offensively, but again NO's bench is better defensively.

I don't think that Paul would thrive in Sloan's system the way that Williams has. The choice of Williams over Paul, in my mind, was a selection of who would fit better in the system at the time with the pieces the Jazz had in place. Williams did that.

Both players have elevated their respective game this season...and Paul is getting a lot of run right now because the Hornets came from nowhere to lead the Western Conference. Williams doesn't get as much credit (outside of the "Heard") because they do what they are expected to do...(yet Sloan continues to get overlooked for COY - but that's a different argument). The Jazz are expected to compete in the WC and Williams is a "part" of that (in the eyes of the national media). Paul is getting credit for doing it on his own and Willams gets credit for being the PG on a top WC team...but again, that is more a result of people not being able to see past the Jazz "system" to give Williams the credit he deserves for leading that team.

Wow... some of you bit hard.

Waters doesn't believe what he's saying. He's just using this argument to get people (specifically: Utahns) riled up. It entertains him.

It might even be the single motivating factor in his life.

If anyone was ever born a troll, Waters was.

I'm not a Jazz fan...I'm an outside observer...so I decided to opine from my Wizard-based viewpoint.

Waters doesn't even watch sports too busy complaining about the church and scouting and reading poorly written LDS literature, so I agree.

Stats among PG's:

PPG: Paul #2, Deron #3, 2.2 point difference.
Blocks: Deron #4, Paul #18, 0.3 diff.
Steals: Paul #1, Deron #9, 1.6 diff.
TO: Paul #17, Deron # 22, 0.9 diff.
Assist: Paul #1, Deron #3, 0.9 diff.
Reb: Paul #3, Deron #8.
3pt%: Deron #6, Paul #13.
FG%: Deron #2, Paul #5.



It's pretty obvious Paul, this year, has the edge over Deron. On the other hand, Deron is obviously better in terms of shooting.


In the end, I don't think this debate is very interesting. This year, Paul is slightly (though significantly) better. Last year, Deron was better (sure, due to Paul's injury, but the difference was significant).

In the end, I believe that while Paul may end up being more dynamic, he will also tend to miss more games due to injury and will be less consistent than Deron. In that eventuality, Deron will end up being the better pick.

Deron is shooting 51% from the floor, Paul is 49% not a huge difference. Paul has more points, rebounds, assists, steals, less turnovers per game and most importantly more team wins. What else is there?

2.1% difference. Not huge, but none of the differences is in any category (except maybe steals).
2.8% difference in 3pt%. Deron averages 3.7 FG Attempts less per game. He'd be leading Paul in scoring with more attempts.

Again, Paul obviously has a small advantage on Deron this year. Last year, it was the opposite, but the difference was more significant (mostly due to injury).


If I'm picking a PG for my team for the next 5 years, and have the choice of Paul or Williams, I'd probably go with Williams, solely due to reliability - Deron's showed no tendency towards serious injury.

I don't think anyone would go wrong with either choice.

The one thing I'm surprised about is the difference in rebounding. I would think, with Deron's size & strength, he'd be a better rebounder. I'm guessing his defensive assignments prevent him from grabbing many.

After watching a lot more of West and Boozer, right this minute, if I had to take a guy on my team, I would take West.

And Deron has been very impressive. As has Paul.

Boozer is a big disappointment right now. Esp. on defense.

Paul is a fabulous player, but he is a scoring point guard. I don't know that he would have been better for the Jazz.

There have been a lot of great scoring point guards in recent memory: Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Glibert Arenas, Allen Iverson. Not one ring in the group, and Paul is arguably doing no more than Iverson did in his first few years in Philly.

Look at who has won championships lately. All teams with either a pure point guard or a pass first guy who can score. I will believe that a scoring point guard can win a championship when I see it. I would not build a team around one. It is the reason I hope my Zards can get Arenas out of town.

Arenas is a ball-hog. A ball-stopper. Per Charles Barkley. He's not a real point guard.

Paul might be the best passer in the game right now, and I give Paul the edge over Derron in terms of court vision and pasing.

The reason your argument is not good (i.e. stupid) is that Tony Parker is exactly that: a scoring point guard. He's definitely not a passing point guard. And I think Tony has a ring or two.

Jazz fans have been saying this all season. Actually, the last 2 or 3 seasons.

Deron last night was great. After the Rockets made a run, he came out in the second half and just dominated. Without Rafer, Houston was no match, and Utah ran away with it.

It'll be interesting watching the Jazz v. Lakers.

Here's my two cents: Paul is better than Williams right now, but I don't care. The Jazz did not blow it by drafting Williams. It's not like Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan. As far as supporting casts, Hornets had 2 all stars, the Jazz 1. Jazz bench is better, but it is a lame argument to say that Paul has no supporting cast.

West would evaporate into nothingness without Paul.

That means nothing to me. Like I said, Paul is better, but I have no regrets at all with williams.

I had hoped Atlanta would have taken Paul at #2 so the Jazz didn't have a choice, and this discussion would be moot. I'd bet Atlanta wishes they would have taken Paul too...

Isn't this like arguing who's better Jeff Hornacek or Michael Jordan?

It is not remotely similar to that. I thought you were some kind of basketball expert?

no.

The fact that people got offended and snarky at my question says it all. Clearly they didn't think I was analogizing Jordan to Williams. I wonder why. Game Waters.

I have to admit that as I have looked more closely at the stats and compare the two teams, these two guys really are apples to apples and Paul is better. I will also take back the comparison I made to Arena and others. I think Tony Parker/Tim Duncan are comparable to Paul/West.

See Waters, some people can admit it when they are wrong.

??? Are you drunk?