Palestinian Right of Return
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti...ight_of_Return

There will be no peace if this is not addressed by Israel.

And Israel knows this.

I have a student from somewhere near Ramallah.

This student has some stories. Frankly, she should have a book deal.

I've had her in communications classes. She has mentioned that when the IDF occupied Ramallah in 2002, they took over the television stations and broadcast pornography.

Liberal academia has become much more sympathetic to the Palestinian plight over the past several years.

I met a Jewish Israeli lady on a plane, and I asked her about this, and she said it deeply pains her.

But you have a huge number of Americans who aren't willing to even learn about what the Palestinians are saying.

I've wavered and gone back and forth on the issue throughout my lifetime. Finding out that Israel wasn't 100% moral and right was a shock to me as a young man, as I had bought the propangand whole-hog.

I'm frustrated with both Israelis and Palestinians.

Me too.

Maybe I'll get her to post here. She's smart and interesting.

Right of Return as demanded by the Palestinians is never going to happen. It's a complete non-starter and one of (many) reasons why the conflict over there is never going to be resolved.

There are some Palestinians in "exile" who are under the illusion that their pre-1967 land and/or homes still exist and are available to them. It's a dream that doesn't comport with reality, and Palestinian leadership is going to have to come to terms with that if they ever get serious about peace.

The difficulties for outsiders is truly understanding the current eddies and currents of political and social thought within those communities. How can those local politicians bridge the gaps sufficiently to appease their constituencies in order to remain in power while working outside the box?

There appear within Israeli society some who have very rigid opinions on the issue and the same for the Palestinians. Compounding the problem is the disproportionate population growth on behalf the Palestinians.

many do exist. if not most of them. and Israelis are living in them.

I would say that not addressing the right of return is a non-starter, and if the Israelis are ever serious about peace they will address it.

this is why the Palestinians will win. Corrupt broken societies die of suicide.

Apparently you live under the same illusion. It was 40 years ago.

They have. They've said no.

human rights no longer apply because something happened 40 years ago?

If Israelis have chosen this, then they have chosen to send their children to die fighting the children of their neighbors, whom will also die.

What sympathy should I have for the Israelis, when they choose to make the Palestinian plight even worse?

also Tex, why do we claim that Israel is democratic, when it doesn't allow Palestinians who live in Israel to vote?

This is precisely the strategy that the Israelis are following. Stretch out the occupation as long as possible, gradually expand the settlements, and pretty soon the world will grow fatigued and accept the confiscation as a foregone conclusion.

at the end of the day, the Palestinians will never accept any settlement that does not address the right to return. On the other side, the Israelis seem to have decided that they will never accept a settlement that does address the right to return.

As far as I can tell, the ball is in the Israelis court. they have all the money, all the power, all the weapons.

We ourselves live in a dishonest society where if you even acknowledge that the Palestinians have a point or two, you will be shouted down as a bigot.

Bad things happen in war. People get displaced. Borders change. Right of return is not necessarily a "human right."

The Palestinian plight is not solely a product of Israeli "occupation." Read some history on the conflict, then get back to me.

That is certainly one undemocratic part of their process, one acknowledged by honest Israelis. It's a problem without a perfect solution.

Hasn't worked after 40 years, has it.

Those of you who are deluded enough to think the Israelis are going to just pick up and go home didn't pay attention to the Gaza withdrawal.

also, I would point out that the American Evangelical/Israeli alliance seems like a mutual destruction pact. In that both seem to be aiming for the destruction of Israel.

Well Tex, if Israel took it by force, it seems to me that the Palestinians can't be faulted for trying to take it back by force as well.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

I am not a historical scholar, so I ask this question. How many of the Muslim nations were demanding the Soviets get out of Eastern Bloc Countries? Right now are the Muslim nations demanding China get out of Tibet? What demands are they making of the Burma Junta?

I would like to see a settlement and I would like to see Isarael in a position to give them some land and have peace. However, I don't know why but I can't seem to think unless Israel just packs up and moves to the US the Arabs will leave them alone.

just like Mormons stand up for the persecuted and oppressed?

Exactly.

People care about their own interests, but they'll be darned if they will go out on a limb for someone else.

Many LDS are cheering in the streets that the FLDS had their kids taken away.

Exactly, so take the restraints off of Israel and let them deal with their problem. It might be well to let them know we will protect them from outside forces, but they are on their own with the Arab nations.

Right. Those SOB Jews are just picking on the poor innocent Arabs.

Right, so why should I care if the Palestinians are also forgotten. It is their problem, not mine.

Thanks Jerry Falwell. Do some reading and come back when you want a serious discussion. That you can't find any wrongdoing by Israel says everything I need to know.

We are part of the animal kingdom. I am with the environmentalists on this one. Everyone should protect the earth and the process. In the animal kingdom it is survival of the fittest. Let's make our moves while we are still the most fit.

I find it amusing that anyone here would take the side of either one of these groups.

well, you might care if they were blowing up your friends. even if your friends haven't always done right.

Israel gets 99% favorable coverage in the media, and among Americans in general.

If one person talks about the plight of the Palestinians, he is a bigot and an anti-semite.

Well they aren't are they. Just curious, how do you pick and choose who you have a bleeding heart for and who you are going to save.

Myself, I pick first who is more important to my needs. It is kind of like what they tell you on the airplane. Put the air mask on yourself first.

What you don't know is how I really feel about Israel. All we've discussed is the Right of Return, and how unrealistic I think it is. You've taken some narrow slice of my opinion on the conflict and generalized it. In addition, you've done nothing but cite anti-Israel bromides.

It isn't I who is not having a serious conversation here.

"Taking sides" would be too strong a phrase for my support for Israel. I acknowledge atrocities and violations on both sides, though I don't think they are necessarily equivalent. I'm also a pragmatist when it comes to solutions. I don't think much of people on idealistic crusades (see: Right of Return).

You should watch the English news on Saudi TV. They never mention "Israel" or "Israeli" without it being preceded by "Enemy". Unless things have changed in the last 15 years, which I doubt.

Many Palestinians voluntarily left their homes in anticipation of the Arab invasion that would crush the infant Israeli nation only to find out they picked the wrong side of that fight.

And Tex went right for "Jews."

It's a cop out.

I have great respect for Jews and Judaism (and for Islam as well).

The religious dimensions of the conflict do not have to be a deal breaker. Judaism and Islam have gotten along without killing each other through long stretches of history.

SIEQ, don't comment on my posts unless you have the cahones to unignore me and actually engage in a discussion.

Bloody coward.

You are correct as far as media in the U.S. goes. U.S. media consumers have been primed to hate Arabs and Muslims since the days of silent film and radio serials like Chandu the Magician.

Britain has a problem too. The BBC did a study of it's own bias on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and came to the conclusion that it had a strong pro-Israeli bias. The BBC has been trying to be more even handed...

The BBC coverage of the Intifada of the late 80s was decidedly pro-Palestinian.

On the contrary. It worked on you. And on the majority of the US public.

What I mean is, it hasn't worked on the Palestinians. But even so ... is there a statue of limitations on war borders? Shall we demand Alsace-Lorraine go back to Germany once more?

How long do Israelis have to live there before it's considered "their" land? Never? Could not that whole argument be applied to all of Israel? This gets much more complex once you push past the bumpersticker bromides.

Since I'm covering the topic in an upcoming show, I'll check out your assertion.

Here's what I'm referring to. The actual report is here in my filing cabinet:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2004...leeastthemedia

I'm waiting for the illegal aliens to assert their right of return due to the 19th century expansionist aggression in Texas and the Mexican-American War.

I have no idea. I doubt they are enthusiastic supporters of forced occupations. What is your point?

That's a weak justification for the settlements in the West Bank.

I'm basing my comments on personal observation. The coverage essentially boiled down to pictures of brave young Palestinians throwing rocks at heavily armed Israeli troops, protraying the Israelis as bullies who had overstepped their bounds.