I think it's messed up
 

that Senator Obama's immediate and not so distant relatives live in poverty and he apparantly does nothing about it. Am I wrong to think that this is a poor reflection on his character?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5042571.ece

he's going to tax you and me to fix it. just you wait, like any good socialist, he's going to have his kingdom pay for his relatives.

I think your mistake is expecting any politician to have much character.

I wish I were making enough scratch to be threatened with a Barack Obama tax hike, but that's beside the point. But if you had a brother in Kenya living in a hut and an immigrant aunt living in a Boston slum, wouldn't you help them out?

Seriously! I literally just got off the phone with my mom a sec ago. She's desperately trying to talk me out of voting Obama (I'm not sure she understands how the electoral system works or that we live in the reddest state outside of Utah). She goes, "but honey, he's going to raise your taxes!!" I said, "I wish!"

This may sound cheesy, but I think it's important not to get too jaded when looking at our elected officials. A lot of them have gone through extreme adversity and have come out of it as very good and decent people, even though they have their obvious flaws. I love some of their stories. Orrin Hatch grew up dirt poor and lived in a refurbed chicken coop while attending law school. Senators Inouye and Dole both gave up partial use of their bodies in the service of our country. Chuck Hagel went through hell in Vietnam and sacrificed family relationships for his country. Even Ted Kennedy has had to deal with the assasination of two brothers in the worlds spotlight. The list goes on. They are people just like us who have lived through difficult circumstances through which their character has been molded.

Though there are certainly slimeballs, I think there are a few statesmen.

And Biden giving an average of $369 per year to charity according to his tax returns? They both expect government to address problems, take no personal responsibility to do anything.

I'm certain there are, but I consider those the exception.

I consider both Obama and McCain to be regular old politicians. Not particularly better or worse than average. Just a couple of guys who play the game and do it pretty well.

Yeah, that was pretty shocking. You'd think after getting their panties in a twist over Palin's $150K, the Obamaphiles would lower their noses enough to scoff at that a little.

unrelated. Palin is supposed to represent NASCAR Americans. That's her whole purpose. That was what made the $150k such a misstep by the RNC.

Biden donating $300 dollars a year just indicates that he's stingy. I don't know that he ever claimed to be otherwise.

Bah. Just because Biden is already a pompous jerk, he gets a pass? I don't think so. You're just trying to excuse your hypocrisy by pointing out (allegedly) Palin's.

That's the rub of it. $369 is stingy by our standards, but it would mean the world to George Obama.

Um, no. There is no hypocrisy here. I'm sure you can find many instances of Barbara hypocrisy, but this is not one of them.

And I never accused Palin of hypocrisy. I said it was a strategic mistake by the RNC to put Palin forth as the NASCAR queen and then dress her in clothes from Saks. I believe that's true.

Biden and his charitable donations are unrelated.

Worry not, YOhio - and you too Babs.

Once Obama takes office, he'll realize that in order to make good with all of his bullshit promises, your taxes will increase significantly.

And the fact that he ignores his brother's plight is no surprise. He's a politician and only gives a damn about his political career.

She is a NASCAR queen! Have you read the women's resume? My goodness, she buys some expensive clothes and suddenly she's what ... an elitist?

Give me a break. The only people to whom that clothing buy was a big deal are people looking for a reason to nitpick. Maybe you'd prefer she wore her ski jacket to the convention.

Not in my mind. I'd bet Palin's charitable donations blow him out of the water, dollar for dollar; and proportionally, I'm quite certain its even worse.

You are very frustrating.

I never said she was an elitist. I said the RNC made a mistake.

I know what you said. I'm questioning the reason why you think it's a mistake. Somehow you think this invalidates her credentials as the EveryMan/Woman, and I think that's quite silly.

I don't think it invalidates her credentials. I do think it shows how out-of-touch the party is when her clothes cost three times as much as the NASCAR voter's house.

This IS a disgrace.

That makes him a bigger piece of shit than I already thought. My 15 year old son gives more to charity than that, and it's not to the church.

I would have thought this would be a very welcome gesture to those who fear reparations. Ingrates!

If his brother was a US citizen, that would be different. ;)

Which state has the highest charitable contributions?
 

Utah. Those damn, mean republicans!

Let's lower our standards to $300 per year!

I would like to see what the numbers are if you take tithing out of the equation. To me, tithing isn't charity. Tithing is like taxes or membership dues. Fast offerings count in my book. I am interested in the feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc. Tithing just pays for and maintains expensive underused buildings.

Shocking. Do contributions upon which one's salvation is incumbent really count?

I don't know the details about this, but speaking as a person with family who have financial problems, may I just say that it is usually much more complicated than the $$. Giving $$ can be like throwing it in the trash. They usually need more comprehensive help, and it can seem impossible to provide it when the recipient doesn't see it that way. I'd cut anybody slack on that one.

Is this even accurate?

When people like Bill Gates donate hundreds of millions to foundations, etc?

I lump this stat in with:

1. Springville Meth Capital of the world
2. My mission was the highest baptizing mission in the world

Don't go there, Barbara. Honestly.

I feel the same way every time I visit my relatives in Utah. I feel bad for them that they have to live there. But I feel like it is their responsibility to save their money and move away. I am helping them by letting them help themselves.

It doesn't meant that is all he gave to charity. It means that is all he claimed on his taxes.

As for Obama's brother, I doubt any of us know what he has or has not attempted to do with his brother. We don't know if he tried and his brother declined aid or what the situation is.

The broadest standard of judgment for Obama. The narrowest for Republicans.

That's how we roll.

SUre, I know lots of well-educated people making large charitable donations that they choose not to declare. Makes sense to me. (of course, if he is giving coin to, say Hamas, then maybe it would make mroe sense)

BlueHair got there before me, anyhow.

In Utah maybe. The ignorance of your post unbelievable.

Fair enough, but his brother is living on twenty bucks a month. Double his standard of living for the cost of a movie and popcorn.

You'd be wise not to stand with him on this one.

yeah. the underused buildings is a bit much. I don't question the use of the funds. The church is probably one of the most efficiently-run non-profits in the world. It's just a stretch to compare believers' giving to that of non-believers' when the former is compulsory.

It's not compulsory. Yes, I'm serious.

Compulsory? Or do you mean self-serving? Why is this different than a politician ('non-beleiver') giving $ to his pet cause? SHould we discount that due to its self-serving nature? Or if the donation is based on fervetn beleif, why is it different than anyone giving to a cause in which they fervently believe? This dichotomy is false.

This is all a moo point because it is highly unlikely that exie's claim is even accurate.

Where does he even get that statistic?

The sheer concentrations of wealth and population in states like California, Florida, New York, Illinois, Texas, Connecticut (wealth, not pops)....would make it highly unlikely that Utah leads the nation in any category.