Russian militants shoot down Malaysian passenger plane
 

I was just listening to the Russian ambassador to the UN.

He blames the Ukrainian government for allowing passenger planes to fly over their territory.

Given Putin's hostility to gays, one might suspect something more sinister then.

That there were so many Europeans on the plane just makes it worse for the Russians.

I expect the EU to finally drop the hammer on Russia in terms of sanctions.

Misguided title by someone who is nuts about "evidence". There is no enough evidence of who did it yet, according to the USATODAY.

I am pretty sure there was zero gay passenger on Iran Air civilian Flight 655 which USS Vincennes shot down on 3 july in 1998. They were already taken care of by the Islamic government.

Russian newspapers reporting: "Ukrainian air traffic control forced the Malaysian airliner to decrease its altitude." Sickening propaganda.

Mindful: use your mind. There is no reason for Ukrainian antiaircraft guns to he shooting at planes in that area. It was the Russians. There is already overwhelming evidence for this.

That's right. There are no gays in Iran.

I have no idea why Russians would want to shoot at a civilian flight. But when USS Vinceenes shot down an Iranian civilian flight, the US government called it a "mistake".

I appreciate your perspective.

It was a mistake. This was a mistake too.

What is important is the circumstances surrounding the mistakes and how to prevent these sorts of mistakes.

You don't believe radar has improved in 16 years in light of past mistakes?

Russians don't make mistakes; they are perfect. Just ask Putin.

Well, Subverting the elected governemt of the Ukraine and escalating the crisis between the countries in the region is one way to reduce the mistakes.

Russians have no interest in preventing mistakes. People don't understand Putin, former KGB/FSB operative. The mindset is quite alien to what the rest of us use. Think, hunkered down, cheated, world seeking to deprive you of greatness, almost a Napoleon type complex, and you can begin to understand the current mindset of Putin and his силовики.

You may be employing your sly sense of humor; otherwise, I don't see how that reduces mistakes.

The US is supposed to be at least a decade ahead . So no excuse.

A fact not in evidence. Perhaps it was not a mistake; I lack the inside intelligence to know.

You are right. Nobody knows what exactly happened. I am just happy there was no gay on the flight.

I agree 100%. Spot on.

Luckily we have a shrewd president who always knows how to handle these situations. :|

Really the only significant thing he could pull off at this point would be to convince Germany to impose big sanctions at great risk to their own economy. Probably not going to happen.

Other than this and broader US sanctions, I think Obama's hands are basically tied in terms of meaningful intervention.

Instead just this week we had the administration's representative announcing that Russia "is not an adversary."

Good time to be a rogue regime right now. American foreign policy is worthless.

Mindful agrees with you.

Obama's early interactions with Putin were wrong. He has never toed a tough line with him. You have a little Napoleon who has now thrilled his native base by repeatedly thumbing his nose at the US.

The US should never have backed down in Poland. That move is the reason we're seeing all of the other catastrophes Russia is pursuing. Millions upon millions will suffer because Obama did not understand Russian mentality. Obama has a severely misguided foreign policy.

Putin's strength has grown because Russians are happier with their lives and their economy is better.

He had generated a tremendous propaganda machine.

I don't think Obama could have significantly affected either of these two major factors.

When there is zero threat of reprisals, bad men are on the move.

I'm not a warmonger. But we have a president who is perceived as a complete douche. That's not good.

What would you do if you were president?

Putin's victims:

https://twitter.com/mitchellreports/...57183544598528

I liked this quote: "In Putin's Russia, plane attacks missile."

So true. Russian news is full of stories saying that Ukrainian air traffic control intentionally told plane to decrease altitude.

Now Russians are saying that the missile was a Ukrainian attempt to shoot down a plane carrying Putin. Idiots.

I would have a show of force. I would bring in a carrier. I would announce weapons support for Ukraine. In addition to the sanctions.

I would not try to convey that I am a pussy. Obama conveying that puts us all in danger.

Good points. Maybe that's about to happen.

Maybe Obama wants to avoid further escalation. Bringing more guns to a fight might not be the best solution.

As someone who spent her entire adolescence in war and is living in a region carpeted with instability and bathed with violence, I would say, yeah go for it. Show some theeth. Your people would love it.

I think I agree with Eric Zuesse.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/...er-downed.html

This is not about the hearts of the people, but the minds of the tyrants. Dealing with tyrants requires a different mentality than dealing with the masses. The masses want fairness and humane treatment.

A tyrant with a Napoleonic syndrome does not.

I disagree that Russians have a strong economy. Russians may be happier with a strongman telling them their lives are better.

Here are some recent evaluations of the Russian economy.
http://www.economist.com/topics/russian-economy

https://www.google.com/search?q=Russ...2F%3B565%3B420


http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/russia/overview

http://www.ibtimes.com/russian-econo...t-help-1633198

Interesting read.

The Russian economy today is infinitely better than it was 15 years ago.

The effect of this is to make Putin wildly popular.

The primary reason for any improvement is linked to exploitation of natural resources. However, the average Russian is not better off, just siloviki and oligarchs.

I agree about natural resources.

You're wrong about people not being better off. The average Russian is much better off. They all have cell phones. Most have computers. Many more have cars.

I lived there for two years in the 90s and was there again last year (in several cities).

Average salary was 40 dollars per month or so in the 90s. Now people make a thousand per month--at least. And their money goes reasonably far.

It's obviously no where near the western world, but it is much, much better than it was.

I wonder how much American resources are Being sucked by Russians. They are Russian models every where!!

/iranianhumor