Death threats for evolution professors
 

in colorado.

http://www.coloradodaily.com/article...lder/news1.txt

This is what happens when you have a president that essentially declares war on science and does nutty things like putting a muzzle on the surgeon general:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/11/wa...ZoZpsS0HG/dtag

Wow. Just wow.

Only in Utah...

Nice. :)

speaking of radical muslims!

All religious extremism is the same. It's like comparing Communism and Facism.

thanks of informing me ,since i all i have been told was "civilized people dont kill any one over his thought and speech"
your new signature has got something much smarter to say ,by the way!

You're talking about one yahoo running around a university in Colorado where the vast majority views him as a nut compared to a region where there are thousands who have this attitude and are tolerated, protected and even supported by the governing powers. The fact that you need to refer to some whacko like this for a comparison makes the point.

So there is no misunderstanding, my signature is not an argument for returning to marchy nor for theocracy or dictatorship. It is, if anything, a plea for bearing with democracies despite despots like Gearge W. Bush.

All religions are capable of similar extremism if left unchecked. Al Queda=Tim McVey=MMM=Inquisition. The difference is the enlightened civic society, the larger secular culture that has been dominant in the West since the Enlightenment, that is a tempering influence on religion and is largely absent in the Middle East.

Mindful - what are your thoughts about Gen. Pervez Musharraf in Pakistan?

This is the kind of guy I like who has leadership in the countries where Islam is practiced. Telling the terrorist who cowardly hide in mosques that they need to surrender or die, then following through with the ultimatum is a step in the right direction.

So now there is one moderate in power who is doing the right thing. Perhaps there are more, but I've head of no others. The rest of the Muslim people need to step up and do the same to rid the world of terrorists.

Here people throw words around; in Islam people throw bombs at babies.

There's a lot of talk and little action here, but some radicals are learning from Islam, let's hope they don't learn too well.

i knew there is a LOT talk and little action out there,but thanks for helping to make my point..
how frivolous and superfacial some people have to be to stick in some rare case in islam( which has its own reasons and causes) and forget the whole excellent and outstanding teachings.
wih having easily access to guns i couldnot be as hopeful as you are not to see those threat come into action !

i completely comprehended whats the main point of the current signature ,but thanks for explnation ..and my post was sort of compliment not sarcasm any way.
i agree .. its a total disaster to have a state religion which has got no ability and no adequacy to run a government.

Western thought and civility still holds most radicals at bay. What is commonplace in Islam is rare in civilized cultures. When do we not see a bomb in Gaza, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or even Syria or Iran?

We know about them here, but thankfully they are relatively rare.

Here's a challenge, show some great sense of charity, not politically motivated, where Muslims helped out nonMuslims.

it would not be too difficult to remember that those countries were quite peace-loving place to live.. when there is a serious threat and intimidation , people get to defend themselves.

When have those countries known peace? They have known nothing but war for most of the existence of those cultures, various as they are.

mind to take a quick look at afqanistan history to brush up your historical familiarity with the country..and to find out how they had been doing befor soviet union invasion ,you could follow the same process about palestine and iraq as well .
western countries have a rich history of war too ,but they mostly have played as invaders role so there might not be direct impact on the people and countries.
havenot you forgotten the fantastic opportunity which the united state of america provideded for hiroshima and nagasaki people to be able to see mushroom cloud,have you ?
i think they are STLL greatful for that.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended a war, lest you forget.

right ,but in what cost?

how about giving middle easterners a chance to see a mushroom cloud and end the war on terror?
i wonder what you might say if there is a time that your people would need to experience such a thing..

No. Lest you forget, Japan was an aggressor against the US, attacking US soil as few other enemies have. When we are attacked on our soil, we let out a fury unknown to man. Should some wayward nation explode a nuclear weapon on our soil, that nation would be annihilated so that no living thing would stand.

In the history of world superpowers, we are the most benign. People in our domain actually care about the welfare of others. Not all, but at least some.

You can outside of Islamic Renaissance point to no period when Islamic principles benefit man in general.

US principles of economics, representative government and technology benefit all nations. Is there also harm? Of course.

But the net effect of Islam is currently harmful.

your sincere effort to justify usa dropping atomic bombs on japan which left a genetical catastrophe plus plenty of instantaneous casulties is getting nowhere ,so you would better not follow that path any more .

[QUOTE=Archaea;101511]
You can outside of Islamic Renaissance point to no period when Islamic principles benefit man in general.QUOTE]

how could you possibly say that ..have you forgotten all those islamic astronomers ,mathematicians and physicians whose splendid books and discoveries have been benefiting western's universities in particular and ordinary people in general??

with great respect to scientific and economical/industiral efforts which have been done in western world to improve peopel's life ,i think itsnot islam's net effect which is currently harmful rather bully ness, injustice and unfairness which is gravely imposed on people and the world.

[quote=mindfulcoug;101530]your sincere effort to justify usa dropping atomic bombs on japan which left a genetical catastrophe plus plenty of instantaneous casulties is getting nowhere ,so you would better not follow that path any more .

A) No one knew the long-term effects of radioactive fallout from atomic weapons until after we dropped the bombs.

B) Islamic societies contributed to the world from the years 800 to 1500 AD. Since then, Islamic societies have only taken from the world. Your nations contribute nothing useful or praiseworthy, with the exception of oil, rugs, and camel hair.

absolutely right ,since collapsing the world trade centers on 9/11 in a miraculous way they did ,was amazingly stimulating for many physics experts specially from harvard and yale to start researches to investigate whether such a thing is basically possible or not.
yeah..lets keep examining chemical bombs and weapons to see what other discoveries might be revealed..

you would better be nice with camels..i can see the day you would need them quite badly.

[quote=mindfulcoug;101530]your sincere effort to justify usa dropping atomic bombs on japan which left a genetical catastrophe plus plenty of instantaneous casulties is getting nowhere ,so you would better not follow that path any more .

Did you miss my reference to the Islamic Renaissance?

From ninth century to about sixteenth century, but actually from about ninth to twelfth century, Islam contributed. In the modern era, its people are non contributing to the betterment of man.

I will soon wed a woman whose father having completed service in Europe was slated to as part of the first artilary division for the invasion of Japan had the invasion been continued WITHOUT the bomb. My own father, a Naval aviator, was also slated to fly fighter cover for the US Army during the planned invation, plans which were finally released under the FOIA a few years ago. Based on statistical probailities from that report, it is very ikely that one or both or those men would have lost their life without HIROSHIMA and NAGASAKI.

Let me be perfectly clear about your revisionist and pacifist ideals. They don't have meaning in the real world. They do have meaning in terms of who GOT to be born and who had fathers (or mothers) after the war was over. Thousands among generations of Japanese people were never born as the bomb ENDED their lines. Thousands of American lines were continued because the BOMB was dropped. I am here. They never were. I feel NO GUILT and NO SHAME over my presence.

I do feel complete and utter disgust when someone canot see the realities of war and when evil men make it and start it without counting the ultimate costs. AMERICA DID NOT START THE WAR ON ISLAM. It is however a war and we darn well better face the reality that if it's a fight they truly want to bring to us (as with 9/11) then it is a fight they better be prepared for and must be willing to accept that ultimately, we will not allow SATAN's plan of compulsory obsesience to survive, or any of his fallowers should they be so inclined to do us harm.

To quote the late apostle Bruce R. McConkie in his LAST public discourse and not long before drawing his own last mortal breath, "There is NO BUDDAH, there is NO CONFUCIOUS and there is NO ALLAH....."

SATAN demanded compulsory adhearance to his plan. He guaranteed GOD strict compliance and perfection. God said, "NO!" God clearly wanted us to choose to serve him and love him. Free Agency...there is none in ISLAM!

I was once very tolerant of ISLAM and I have many Muslim friends. But I am no longer tolerant of evil and it is truly an oppression and all such oppression that kills the light within it's people and destroys their hearts and returns to the bare and naked chest of men the work of hatred has no place in God's world. We should LOVE the people, but we must also see ISLAM for what it is, a shaken pillar of hate and deception. There was NO vision in the desert, only the delusions of a thirsty boy who found moisture and shelter from the sun in a cave.

You say "Islamic societies" and then guage their value by what they contribute materially. In that sense what does any religion contribute? Zilch, except for this. Islam like Christianity was an important conduit or transmitter of the West's intellectual traditions, emanating from Classical culture. It was this element of "Islamic culture" that caused its flowering from 750 to 1500, not Islam per se. But the same is true for Western nations now. Ultimately certain religious leaders come along and are hell bent on snuffing out the intellectual tradition. They succeed in doing so through theocracies. Islam and Christianity are the same in this respect. This is what has happened in the Middle East today just as it happened in large swaths of the Europe in the Middle Ages.

Bruce R. McConkie was an intellectual pretender and a racist. He was a terrible man whose writings have caused and continue to cause awful embarrassment and shame to the LDS Church. This statement is a perfect example (if he said it). It's nonsense and pure hate.

Perhaps he meant it that Buddah, Confucious and Allah are all different names for God?

It's your opinion that he is hateful, so don't state it as if it is fact. I think he was wrong about many things, but it's my opinion that he wasn't intending to be hateful.

Your Caps Lock key seems to be jammed.

So you're suggesting that Islamic societies are contributing something valuable to the world other than the meager material things that I mentioned?

America makes huge contributions to human knowledge and progress. Members of moderately religious (non-fanatical) subcultures contribute to that progress.

I would agree with you if you refer to fanatically religious people.

Islamic societies do not make any significant contribution to humanity's knowledge base.

Sooner - you haven't been around enough to know that Seattle sees all religion - be it Christian, Islam, Judaism etc. - are all the same:

Backward and a waste of time.

I think it's fair to say that all fanatics are essentially the same. The only debate in my mind concerns the definition of the word "fanatic."

Seattle might think that anyone who believes in God is a fanatic.

I don't think Islamic societies are presently contributing much of anything besides oil and carpets. But nor do I think America's prosperity is much due to Americans' religiosity, whether moderate or radical. It is due to America's preeminent values of supporting empiricism and economic and civil liberties--science and freedom--which are to a large extent in conflict with religion. Religion in America and elsewhere is to a large extent a relic of the past. Hence the extreme reactions of certain religious factions in our country and the Middle East. It is radicalism born of desperation.

The moderateness of religion in America that you reference is due to America's secular values rooted in the Constitution, not because American religions are inherently morally superior to Islam. If you could magically separate religion from America's secular culture which, as I suggested, is rooted in Classical culture and more immediately in the Constitution, not any religion, I submit you would not see a decline in America's standing as a world power or morality in America. America today represents in large measure a triumph over religion, and America's secular culture is what makes much of religion moderate in America. Absent that no American religion would support support basic civil liberties such as freedom of speech or even property interests any more than they have historically, and America would be as backward as any society in history that has been a true theocracy, whether it is Christian or Islamic.

I agree with your basic cricticisms of Islam in this age, but to suggest that America's virtues and prosperity compared to the Middle East's problems exist because our religious heritage is superior to Islam in any way is ahistorical and narrow minded.

Religion has a long history of getting in the way of progress. A current example would be how the U.S. is getting left behind in stem cell research due to Bush's religious objections.

[QUOTE=Archaea;101539]so it has offered its own share of benefiting people and the world .

i have a gut feeling that Osama Bin laden feels NO GUILT and NO SHAME over his presence either.

i read your post ,twic ,but i couldnot find any single point worthy replying ,so i would rather welcome you as a new member and be the first one who wishes you "happy marriage"

ps:i didnot have my caps lock jammed ,i just pasted his.

it happens when people are in a big hurry to express thier hatred while at the same time they throw out the word "love" here and there just for fun!:)

Do you realize how terribly ironic it is for you to take shots at a religion by pointing out the delusions of a young boy who claimed to see visions?

On top of that, Muhammad was 40 years old when Gabriel visited him and told him all the Christian religions were corruptions of the original true gospel. Hardly a boy, especially in those days.

I think one day Mohammed will be accepted as a prophet by the LDS people.

The only stories I like more than boys who see angels are watery tarts throwing around swords.