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-   -   Why does BYU baseball suck? (http://www.cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7382)

MikeWaters 04-02-2007 03:09 PM

Why does BYU baseball suck?
 
A guy in my ward briefly played for BYU before getting injured. I asked him why BYU sucks now, versus the distant past when they were pretty good. He says there is just too much incentive to go pro.

But why would this disproportionately affect BYU, more than other schools?

I remember when BYU came to play A&M on year. I watched the game. BYU's ace just got tagged hardcore. I was sitting near one the scouts who had the radar gun. He said "must be a cold-weather pitcher."

Heck, back in the day I even watched BYU baseball on ESPN.

Goatnapper'96 04-02-2007 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 69358)
A guy in my ward briefly played for BYU before getting injured. I asked him why BYU sucks now, versus the distant past when they were pretty good. He says there is just too much incentive to go pro.

But why would this disproportionately affect BYU, more than other schools?

I remember when BYU came to play A&M on year. I watched the game. BYU's ace just got tagged hardcore. I was sitting near one the scouts who had the radar gun. He said "must be a cold-weather pitcher."

Heck, back in the day I even watched BYU baseball on ESPN.

I would think that BYU should be more competitive with its unique demographic in baseball. The good players could play as freshman and then another year as sophmores and then go pro. Law has landed a few studs like this, Dave Jenson from Vegas and a kid named McNaughton who is on a mission right now. However, his reliance on JC kids never seems to make BYU real good. I don't think Law is a very good college HC. He is not bad, but not real good and I doubt it is important enough to BYU to do too much about it.

BYU baseball in the 70's and 80's was good, but not real good. I never remember them even being able to compete at the sub-regional if they won the WAC, which they usually didn't.

'83 was an anomaly and in true fashion they choked in the postseason.

Gary Cooper had a freaking gorgeous wife. I saw her at a Tucson Toro game and I doubt her clothes were acceptable for a librarian or a coed at the BYU.

Archaea 04-02-2007 03:54 PM

While I attended BYU for half a century, I favored BYU baseball with my presence. It was fun and frustrating. Pullins wasn't the best but he was a better coach than Law.

Law just can't recruit and put together a team that now plays in a weakened conference. I just don't believe Law is or was the right guy for the program. Nolins should been selected.

cougjunkie 04-02-2007 04:19 PM

With the way the major league draft is set up, it almost benefits you more to go to a JC. You can go to a JC for two years and then be drafted right out of a JC, where if you decide to go to a divisiion I school you have to wait until you are a junior to be drafted. I think this has hurt BYU.

Also BYU had Aaron Jensen a true pro prospect out of springville signed a few years ago and he told the pros that if he was not drafted in the first three rounds he was going to college, well he was drafted in like the 15th round, but was promised first round money so he decided to forego college.

All of the truly great players end up going pro right out of highschool. One of the other problems BYU has is that they havent been able to establish a real strong relationship with some of the best schools in the Valley, Spanish Fork is a baseball powerhouse and everyone knows it, yet very rarely do their kids end up at BYU. The only kid from last years team was their 5th starter that most people didnt think was worthy of a division I schollie.

Finally i think missions hurt BYU baseball more than any other sport. If commit to BYU, play for a season then go on a mission for 2 years, that puts you at 21-22 years old, this means you have to play another 2 years so you are 24 when you are eligible to be drafted. 24 is old for a first year minor leaguer especially considering most guys need 3 or 4 years of development, you are looking at a 28-29 year old rookie.

Thats why a lot of these kids eventhough they were not drafted very high, take the jump to the majors and if they flame out then they go on missions.

il Padrino Ute 04-02-2007 04:25 PM

Two reasons immediately come to mind:

Pullins is a better coach and better recruiter than Law is.

Schools located in areas where it isn't baseball weather 365 days a year are almost always never going to be very good. When I played, we had to practice indoors a lot because of inclement weather and no matter how good the indoor facilites may be, practicing indoors still limits a baseball team. We were competitive, but that's about as good as a northern team can get.

It's tough when you start the season by playing the first 20-30 games on the road. Home field doesn't mean as much in baseball as it does in other sports, but it is mentally draining to have to travel to the various fields and back home to go to class then go back on the road, back home for class, etc.

Oregon State won it all last year, but it's an exception when a northern school wins it. Of course, the weather in Oregon is more mild than it is because of the lower elevation, but their victory was still more the exception than the rule.

Also, the incentive to go pro is much higher now too. It's tough for a kid to turn down a big fat signing bonus and because baseball has a farm system, it's generally more beneficial for a young player to progress in the farm system than in school because the focus on baseball is much more focussed because there are less distractions off the field such as school.

Surfah 04-03-2007 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 (Post 69375)
I would think that BYU should be more competitive with its unique demographic in baseball. The good players could play as freshman and then another year as sophmores and then go pro. Law has landed a few studs like this, Dave Jenson from Vegas and a kid named McNaughton who is on a mission right now. However, his reliance on JC kids never seems to make BYU real good. I don't think Law is a very good college HC. He is not bad, but not real good and I doubt it is important enough to BYU to do too much about it.

BYU baseball in the 70's and 80's was good, but not real good. I never remember them even being able to compete at the sub-regional if they won the WAC, which they usually didn't.

'83 was an anomaly and in true fashion they choked in the postseason.

Gary Cooper had a freaking gorgeous wife. I saw her at a Tucson Toro game and I doubt her clothes were acceptable for a librarian or a coed at the BYU.

Dave Jensen was a stud. He's a friend and he's done with pro ball. He lives and works in Salt Lake City now.

Mike Tejada was another good friend of mine who played a year despite being drafted out of HS and went on a mission, played another year and then left. Mike too is done with pro ball and is back in Hawaii living and working.

Talking to both of them, the incentive to turn pro is extremely high. I believe Mike was taken by the Expos out of HS and even at his position in the draft the money offered him was more than tempting. Mind you this was 10-11 years ago where those sums have grown even larger. Upon coming home from their missions, the opportunity was just too great to pass up.

Archaea 04-03-2007 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfah33 (Post 69795)
Dave Jensen was a stud. He's a friend and he's done with pro ball. He lives and works in Salt Lake City now.

Mike Tejada was another good friend of mine who played a year despite being drafted out of HS and went on a mission, played another year and then left. Mike too is done with pro ball and is back in Hawaii living and working.

Talking to both of them, the incentive to turn pro is extremely high. I believe Mike was taken by the Expos out of HS and even at his position in the draft the money offered him was more than tempting. Mind you this was 10-11 years ago where those sums have grown even larger. Upon coming home from their missions, the opportunity was just too great to pass up.

Yes I know Dave, his brothers, sisters, mother remarried, her husband, his father and his new wife.

Dave is out of pro ball because he wasn't that interested in it in the first place, not because he probably couldn't have made it. His brother is now finishing dental school. We have another local who's giving it his final year try.

Law has not done a good job. Don't know why but his teams have not fared well.

Surfah 04-03-2007 06:23 PM

I agree that I don't think Law has a done a good job. But as Il Pad mentioned playing in Utah is a big drawback. They spend the first half of the season playing through California, Arizona and Texas. Those are tough road trips. But they should be more competitive than they have been.

I miss going to the games. My favorite part about the BYU games was the blind guy that plays piano at Nordstroms. He'd sit behind home plate with his big cowbell which he would pound furiously when we hit a homerun. He had great taunts too and would always remind the Cougars that "the bell is waiting!"

Detroitdad 04-03-2007 07:13 PM

If everyone is in accord that Law has not done a good job, is he in trouble? And if not, why?

MikeWaters 04-03-2007 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detroitdad (Post 69827)
If everyone is in accord that Law has not done a good job, is he in trouble? And if not, why?

Probably because he is a nice guy, trying hard, and winning in baseball is not a priority.


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