When will Mormons learn?
 

They have a serious case of battered spouse syndrome.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/05/09/...romney-mormon/

The GOP base definitely has an anti-Mormon streak.

Evangelicals have a definite anti-Mormon streak.

So why do Mormons let them run the party? Is there a more faithful group to the Republicans than Mormons in general (other than tiny insignificant groups)?

I ask myself this question about the blacks and the Democrats all the time.

Right- good timing to be asking that question.

I agree.

lol

Shh- look above for an adorable post by Tex where he shows he clearly doesn't get it.

What--now for the next 4-8 years there's no discussion allowed about how nonsensically loyal blacks are to the Democrats, no matter how they abuse them?

Funny that one of Obama and the Democrat Congress's first acts was to revoke DC school vouchers, which helped place lots of black kids in better schools. I think they finally got enough negative press that they cancelled the change before it was final.

Liberalism is one of the chief culprits of the destruction of the black family, and yet they just keep coming back for more.

Looks like you still haven't gotten it.

Is it nonsensical? That party just elected the first African-American to the US presidency. What have Republicans done for them lately (Note to reader: this is all a distraction attempt by Tex designed to obscure the fact that Republicans wildly mistreat Mormons)?

As long as we are making wild accusations with no attempt at supporting them, let me just say that Republicanism is one of the chief culprits of stupidity.

I think you have me confused with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

You ask what Dems have done for blacks when they've just elevated a black person to the presidency?

Obama is not black. He's mixed race who grew up in Indonesia.

That's enough to get you pulled over and profiled at a rate 7x the white person's.

The difference is the base of the Republican party consists largely of the same people who like to tell lies about your religion and make you look like a member of an evil satanic cult. I think it's probably more strange to associate with people who don't try to cover the fact they hate your religion as opposed to those who tell you they're trying to help you even if their methods don't work.

I'm not sure vouchers are the answer to anything.

Esp. as long as schools can selectively deny entrance to students based on aptitude and other factors.

Those schools who want to remain exclusive will just raise prices to the point where existing students will get a little bit of a deal but the price will still be too high for anyone who can't afford to go there now. So they'll be stuck in the public schools, few will actually change schools. The main difference will be government money subsidizing private education. Vouchers seem like a good idea on the surface to a free market proponent, but they aren't really because it's really just an expansion of government money into private or religious education, and with that will come mandates and other stuff tied into the funds. Conservatives are supposed to be against that stuff.

Obviously what I am getting at is what happens to the "underclass" and the special needs kids?

By underclass I mean the children from historically poor and broken families with poor parental support.

Just as you see "white flight" with the current system, you will see the same happen in a universal voucher system as well--with many private schools opting out, or raising prices to put it out of reach.

The only private school in the area with the capability to help my son turned him down sight unseen.

Multiply that by thousands and thousands--millions actually.

There is no "magic solution" to our education problem. We need to do the hard work of getting parents more involved, of getting better teachers (and getting rid of bad teachers), holding people accountable.

The lady in DC who has proposed to the teachers union that teachers make 6-figure incomes IF they get rid of tenure/job security. Trying to attract a different kind of person to the teaching profession.

Pay me $150k to teach sophomore Honors English and coach JV basketball, and hell, maybe even I would think about it. :)

I recognize the value of vouchers is hotly debated, but it's hard to deny that they've worked in DC.

We are talking about confusingly loyal constituencies, right?

So Obama got elected. So what? If Mitt Romney had gotten the nomination and won the election, would that change the nutty anti-Mormonism among thousands of evangelicals?

Blacks are the Great Abused Constituency of America. They are cringingly loyal to a party whose philosophies and policies have helped destroy the black family and kept thousands of blacks in poverty. They vote in higher percentages for a single party than any other demographic of any reasonable size, save that of party affiliation. Punching the card of some elitist liberal--though he happens to also be black--doesn't change all that.

And if blacks really are voting in droves for Obama (and the Dems) on that basis alone, then that's just good ol' fashioned race-based politics. Not something to be proud of, either.

But that is precisely the point, Tex. Many Republican insiders, including now Michael Steele, have said that Mitt lost because he was Mormon. Many evangelical leaders (i.e., the base) said they would never vote for Mitt because he was Mormon. Mitt didn't win, and a great argument can be made that it was largely due to his religious beliefs. That represents a very real ceiling your party has erected for Mormons, despite the fact that Mormons are overwhelmingly Republican (in the US).

You say that blacks are mistreated by Democrats. Setting aside whether or not that is true, even if it is, it is true on an entirely different level for blacks and the Democratic Party. Democrats elected a black man to be president of the United States. While you may think Democrats mistreat blacks, they most certainly aren't constructing barriers to party and national leadership like Republicans are with Mormons. And, by the way, the guy Democrats elected in the Senate to be Majority Leader is also Mormon. Who was the last Mormon Republican Majority or Minority Leader?

I'm sure there are probably some positive results that can come. But I think traditional, small government conservatives should be concerned about the government giving money to private schools because of the influence and control that will always come tied to the money. Now they can insist on having some control over the curriculum or demand other things. Mike Huckabee-style religious right conservatives won't care so much because they like a mix of church and state.

I've not followed this in the news. Do you have information supporting this?

Evaluating such a thing is non-trivial, because vouchers are a self-selected population.

What you're saying is: because one guy won the lottery, the lottery must be a great thing for everyone who plays.

You're right, it's more "hip" to be anti-Mormon than racially prejudiced. And that would be a great point, if it actually dealt with what I'm getting at. It doesn't. I got in this thread when someone wondered why Mormons stay loyal to a party whose leadership (allegedly) is keeping them down.

There is no party where that is more evident than the Democrat party and blacks. The election of one black president (who barely secured his nomination) does not erase decades of abuse.

Tex, did you know that there is a prominent country club in Dallas that does not allow blacks to join? Even really rich, corporately-connected ones.

If you want to know the pull of minorities in the GOP, all you had to do was look at the GOP convention. Which looked like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. The dem convention looked like a mass of humanity, of all stripes. You tell me which group is more welcoming to minorities.

You're correct that there is a greater variety of race that is in the Dem party; however, Tex is asking why do blacks continue to be a part of a political party, the politics of which continuously keep the blacks in poverty? Sure, Mormons aren't liked by the religious right, but what does the religious right in the GOP do politically to Mormons that prevents them from making their lives better?

They keep Mormons from assuming the reigns of power, in order to improve their lives.

Remember, the GOP is the party of Lincoln, who was among the greatest anti-Mormon bigots of all-time.`

Ummm...ok.

He also sold poison milk to school children.

You are comparing this to a lottery? That is dumb, on many levels. First of all, even if this was a lottery, everyone in the Democratic party can purchase a ticket, whereas for Republicans, Mormons can't buy a ticket to participate. They are excluded from the beginning. Second of all, this isn't even remotely like a lottery, which is dictated purely by chance and by a blind draw. Everyone saw Obama before they voted for him. Everyone heard him speak. Based on what they saw and heard, they voted for the guy. Many have argued, including yourself, that he won BECAUSE he was black. Romney arguably lost BECAUSE he was Mormon. Your comparisons are a weak attempt at an apology for the bigoted base which runs your party. Finally, the notion that the Democratic party abuses blacks, and has for years, is silly and unsupportable. Perhaps you should reexamine recent history (start with Brown v. Board and work forwards) before you so quickly conclude which of the two parties has a horrible civil rights record (hint: it rhymes with Bepublican).

You missed the point of the analogy, which is: the success of one individual does not presuppose the success of all other individuals.

Republican hands are certainly not clean on the race issue, but then again, it's not the Republican party that 90+% of black voters are flocking to. The real question here is, why do blacks continue to show loyalty to a party whose past is at least as checkered, if not more so.

You saying that Democrats' past with blacks is "at lesat as checkered, if not more so [than Republicans] doesn't make it true. Clearly, blacks, at least, do not believe that to be the case (for great reason, by the way). Obama's success is not the success of one individual, either. It is the success of countless individuals who paved the way for him to succeed, most of whom were also Democrats (by the way- you once again really need to work on your analogies. an analogy involving a lottery doesn't work at all when you are discussing a topic that involves far more than 100% pure chance to succeed).

You don't want to address Mormons at all. Instead, you keep asking "but why do blacks support Democrats? That doesn't make sense either!" For the sake of getting you to actually stay on point for once, let's assume that blacks are making an awful choice by supporting Democrats. Where does that leave your and Mormon support of Republicans?

Obviously my view of what the Democrats have done for black Americans is different from yours (or theirs, for that matter).

But reason doesn't always win. For many blacks, voting Democrat is a religion.

I don't view Republican treatment of Mormons the way you do.

If a Mormon ran for president as a democrat, I guarantee he (or she) would not be pulling a Mitt Romney "I'm so down with evangelical stuff" routine.

Ironically, dems might be more accepting of a moderate Mormon than GOP would accept a moderate Mormon.

How do you view Republican treatment of Mormons?

Which Mormon has been elected to national office as a Republican? Senate Majority Leader? Senate Minority Leader? House Majority or Minority? Mormons have been one of the most reliable voting bases of the Republican party. What do they have to show for it? Contrast this with Jews on the Democrat side (who constitute a smaller voting bloc than Mormons do in the US).

Convenient that your standard for political success consists of nothing more than the position held by the lone LDS Democrat senator.

Hardly. It isn't at all surprising that Mormons don't reach high political positions in the Democratic Party. Mormons are a strong Republican voting bloc. It is surprising that Harry Reid is arguably the most powerful elected Mormon in history and he is a Democrat.

So once again, who are your Mormon Republican leaders of national import? Surely there must be some, right? What is your party doing for Mormons, which are arguably the most reliable voting bloc in the Republican Party?

Nah, I'm not playing your game.

I accept your surrender.