[SeattleUte]

I'll pass on this poll.

The notion of a great apostasy is a lot like when Hitchins says religion has no good purpose at all and just contaminates everything. How could a fair minded student of history not acknowledge that "Christianity" is a but for cause of Western Civilization? Is Western Civilization really such a thoroughly terrible thing? I know Hitchins doesn't believe that. Tom Paine is his idol. But though Tom Paine was an atheist, he was a product of the civilization that Christianity in many respects created.

Now, when we talk about "Christianity" in this context, we are talking about the very form of apostate Christianity condemned by Talmage. The problem is that if you pull one strand as important as Christianity from the tapestry of Western Civilization, maybe the whole things comes apart. Anyway, maybe you get something much worse. There are worse things than Western Civilization. Agreed?

There is this notion that some say has been supported by the Dead Sea scrolls that early on there were two branches of Christianity, one more Jewish and occult and ascetic (they didn't drink wine, etc.), and the other infused with Greek philosphy and culture, and projecting to gentiles. James (Jesus' brother) and Paul have been identified as the heads of each branch. The extinction of James' Christianity and the spectacular, world changing success of Paul's might be characterized by some as an apostasy from the original pure form of Christianity, I suppose. But what would the other Christianity, James' Christianity, have led us to? I shudder to think.

Anyway, as FARMS has noted, great apostasy=Hellenization of Christianity. I submit you can't take the Greek out of Christianity and wind up with the United States of America, just as you can't take Christianity out of Europe and wind up with the U.S.A.

The doctrine of great apostasy just doesn't make any sense from a non-eccliesiastical, historical perspective. It's gibberish. But I understand you had to have had an apostasy for a "restoration" to make any sense.