[Robin]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

What is not stated is the counter viewpoint, which is that people can actually have spiritual experiences that strengthen their testimonies.

I have a friend who has left the church. If you ask him about the real nitty gritty spiritual stuff--the Holy Ghost stuff--he says, "I don't have an answer for that." IOTW, he does not deny his experience, and hasn't reconciled those experiences with his current path.

Versus my brother who says "I made all that stuff up, it came from within. There was no heavenly source."

I think you are right. Some spiritual experiences will strengthen testimonies for some people. Some doubts can be resolved. Still, there is a particular brand of doubt that is especially resiliant to religious dogma. Unlike your brother or your other friend, I don't doubt or deny the existence or significance of spiritual experience. I simply doubt my own ability to INTERPRET that experience with any degree of specificity that would allow me to confidently pick one dogma over another.

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I don't think my brother is lying. He believes what he is saying. But at some level it must nag at him.

It probably nags at him less than you think.

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I had a conversation with Robin a long time ago, where we argued over the basis of belief. I was a proponent of the heart, that is, of spiritual feelings. He was a proponent of the mind, of rationality, of "clear thought." I believed we had fundamentally different ways of approaching belief in the church. I believed then and I believe now, if your foundation does not rest upon the Holy Ghost, your house will be washed away.

I know Robin will have a response to this, that I have mischaracterized his beliefs, and that the Holy Spirit has led him in a different direction, etc.

If we are talking about RELIGIOUS BELIEF, then I think your description of our conversation and our general attitudes is fairly accurate. Reason prevents me from taking the logical leap that allows some to pick one religion/dogma over another.

If we are talking about belief in general, or approaches to life and spiritual experience, I think our roles are pretty much the opposite, and you become the man of 'reason,' and I am more the 'mystic.'

Anyhow, you are welcome to characterize our approaches in any way you find personally usefull.