Quote:
Originally Posted by creekster
I am talking about the cultural tendency to exalt the social and spiritual competence of women as an excuse to avoid cultivating those same traits in men. If you haven't' seen this, then either you have never been in leadership or you have a very different ward than mine. I have never said women work too hard or are too spiritual. to the contrary, they are doing fine. I find fault with men (and women that encourage this view) who lay off their role to women because women are better at it or more prepared or more spiritual etc. This is a lame excuse and should not be encouraged or allowed. I see this happen ALL THE TIME at the ward and stake level when planning activities, firesides, lessons, etc. It is embedded in our culture and almost presents a barrier to the progress of many men, IMO.
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I simply do not see the cultural tendency you are talking about. I have ocassionaly seen instances of the one specific example you've cited of this tendency: the example of "We better let the women organize this social event because if we leave it up to the men then it won't be any good". I do not see that translating into men "abdicating their role as spiritual leaders". I do not see it translating into how households are run or translating into how assignments are made in the church (other than the organizing of social events). You say you see it happen all the time. Well sir, we must have been in very different wards throughout our lives because I simply don't see it happening like you describe.
Because I don't see it happening like you describe, I would appreciate some examples:
- How does it translate into the household?
- How does it translate into how assignments are made in church (again, aside from the organizing of social things)?
- Where are men abdicating their roles as spiritual leaders?
Although I don't really see widespread evidence of exalting the social and spiritual qualities of women in a large sense, let's assume for the moment that it's true. Perhaps I need reading comprehension lessons but I don't see that you've presented any evidence to support your argument/assumption that said exaltation is happening "as an excuse to avoid cultivating those same traits in men".
The first part of my previous post (the part about HT/VT) was directed at Requiem but it also plays into my main point which is that I believe men AREN'T abdicating their roles as spiritual leaders. I think in certain cases their roles are more difficult than women, HT vs. VT in particular, and that certain things one cites as evidence of men abdicating their role are in fact just examples of the more difficult nature of that role. The various examples of duties under the priesthood that I cited are examples of how men are currently filling their role as spiritual leaders.
The budget comment was indeed an emotional swipe at the ladies - guilty as charged; however, now that I think more about it, I do believe that it has some relevance to the underlying discussion. Perhaps one way to avoid exalting the "social competence" of women is to slash that bloated entertainment budget?