[Larry “Moose” Stubing]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

One thing that surprised me about Mormons and I learned from the Internet is how many Mormons who are active in the faith there are whose views of Mormonism are not that far removed from my own--my speech just tends to be more blunt and irreverent, but the content is similar if not the same.

Another thing that surprised me is how many Mormons I've seen exit the faith in the years I've interacted with Mormons on the Internet. I suppose this observation is related to the first.

But the most surprising thing to me is that there is literally a cult of BYU football; most BYU fans I've known care a thousand times more about BYU sports than about the LDS Church. The reason I say this is that I can level any amount of criticism or even invective at the LDS Church (essentially, its leaders) and Mormons will tolerate it or even be amused by it. But BYU fans' skin is hyper-thin about BYU sports.

Since Utah was admitted to the Pac 12, Cougarstadium has become toxic for Ute fans. They can't stand our presence. Moreover, they don't tolerate honest criticism of BYU that is kindred to typical criticism leveled at the LDS Church, even if it is demonstrably true. For example, for years I patiently explained to them that BYU would never be offered from a P5 conference because of what I jokingly call the CULTure. I reiterated this during the last increased dialogue over Big 12 expansion fueled by the Big 12's commitment to investigate expansion.

As my words turned out to be prophetic, cougarstadium all but threw stones at me. Of course, I was only the messenger for what I accurately was predicting as the mainstream view. For all the criticism I've leveled at every other part of the LDS Church, my prediction and explanations for BYU being shut out of the P5 was finally not the straw that broke the camel's back, but what caused Jeff Lebowski to go from saying he loved me (there are many posts where he had done that) to saying I was like the infamous Wasatch teams sports board troll Moose. I hadn't changed. It's just that this time I was getting it right about BYU.

Here is what is shameful. These BYU fans will call themselves progressive and criticize the LDS Church's moral failings including homophobia, abuse of women, failure to account for historical racism, lack of academic freedom, etc. (they may not describe these things exactly as I have, granted, but purportedly we share similar concerns), but when it comes to BYU having actually to suffer for its principles and those of the university communities BYU fans pine for, BYU fans are completely unwilling to stand up for what really matters.

This was well written. I just want to let everyone know I’m here and reading this topic.