Has anyone attended a missionary discussion lately? - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

bluegoose · 02-07-2006, 12:17 AM

The past couple of weeks I have gone to gospel principles class, as an acquaintance of mine is investigating the church, along with his less-active wife. He's a great guy, and appears to be very sincere in his desire to find some answers, so for the most part the missionary discussions (given during gospel principles class due to scheduling conflicts) have been fairly enlightening.

Until, of course he asks a question to the elders outside of what they had planned to teach him. Yesterday the idea of the Creation came up, more specifically the 6 creative periods. This new elder starts spouting off on this anti-science tirade in similar fashion to Jos Fielding Smith material from Doctrines of Salvation. One of the better statements he made sounded something like this : "New studies have recently come forth disproving previous methods of dating earthen materials, thus proving beyond a doubt that the earth is, in fact, not billions of years old and is actually only about 6,000 years old as we learn in the scriptures".

I've observed similar digressions in other missionary discussions, even with different elders. For anyone else who has observed or taught using this new approach, are my experiences a product of the new, less-structured system of teaching or just isolated episodes?

Parrot Head · 02-07-2006, 12:22 AM

You left us hanging! What great words did you say to rebuke the elder and instill in your friend the need to be baptized immediately?

bluegoose · 02-07-2006, 12:32 AM

Who said I rebuked him? Are you trying to tell me it wasn't sound science he was quoting and that the earth is actually older that 6,000 years??? :shock:

As for my buddy, I just hope he sticks around long enough for the hoops season to get here to carry us through the tourney.

Actually he is brand spankin new to all things religion and spiritual, and is taking his time with investigating the church. He'll be solid if he finds some answers.

ute4ever · 02-07-2006, 01:01 AM

I was recently with a 19 year old from Woods Cross, Utah, who was telling his investigator about the gift of the holy ghost. The elder said one day when he was 10, he went to Holiday Oil with his friends, and they put some candy bars in their pockets. They said, "come on Nathan, take a candy bar." Suddenly he had a feeling that stealing candy is wrong, and he left without taking anything.

Then the elder testified of how thankful he was to have the gift of the holy ghost to teach him right from wrong that day.

The investigator looked at me, rolled his eyes and said, "Us non-mormons refer to your holy ghost as common sense."

Sleeping in EQ · 02-07-2006, 01:44 AM

but in some senses the new discussions may expose the fact that some missionaries have horsewobble for social skills.

Additionally, while missionaries need not be theologians, a well-considered "I don't know, I'll try to find that answer for you" is always better than saying something about carbon dating that someone need not agree with to be baptized, and never mind the absurd notion that all church members in good standing believe such and such (fill in the blank).

Admitting that one does not know the answer to a question can actually strengthen an investigator-missionary relationship. It reinforces that the missionary is trying to be honest and humble, and that s/he won't make up stuff on the spot out of insecurity, immaturity, or some other reason.

The fact is that there is a great variety of points of view on all kinds of subjects in the church, including the creation and evolution. I have never heard of anyone being asked about her/his views on such things in a formal, worthiness-determining setting.

SteelBlue · 02-07-2006, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluegoose

For anyone else who has observed or taught using this new approach, are my experiences a product of the new, less-structured system of teaching or just isolated episodes?

I think your memory is fading when it comes to some of the things elders said in our day. That's right, I include myself in your day :wink: . I heard many an elder give a bogus sermon, some much more embarrasing than the one you had to endure.

02-07-2006, 12:17 AM	#1
bluegoose Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Northern California Posts: 2,919	Has anyone attended a missionary discussion lately? The past couple of weeks I have gone to gospel principles class, as an acquaintance of mine is investigating the church, along with his less-active wife. He's a great guy, and appears to be very sincere in his desire to find some answers, so for the most part the missionary discussions (given during gospel principles class due to scheduling conflicts) have been fairly enlightening. Until, of course he asks a question to the elders outside of what they had planned to teach him. Yesterday the idea of the Creation came up, more specifically the 6 creative periods. This new elder starts spouting off on this anti-science tirade in similar fashion to Jos Fielding Smith material from Doctrines of Salvation. One of the better statements he made sounded something like this : "New studies have recently come forth disproving previous methods of dating earthen materials, thus proving beyond a doubt that the earth is, in fact, not billions of years old and is actually only about 6,000 years old as we learn in the scriptures". I've observed similar digressions in other missionary discussions, even with different elders. For anyone else who has observed or taught using this new approach, are my experiences a product of the new, less-structured system of teaching or just isolated episodes?

02-07-2006, 01:44 AM	#5
Sleeping in EQ Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The People's Republic of Monsanto Posts: 3,085	I don't think its a product of the new discussions but in some senses the new discussions may expose the fact that some missionaries have horsewobble for social skills. Additionally, while missionaries need not be theologians, a well-considered "I don't know, I'll try to find that answer for you" is always better than saying something about carbon dating that someone need not agree with to be baptized, and never mind the absurd notion that all church members in good standing believe such and such (fill in the blank). Admitting that one does not know the answer to a question can actually strengthen an investigator-missionary relationship. It reinforces that the missionary is trying to be honest and humble, and that s/he won't make up stuff on the spot out of insecurity, immaturity, or some other reason. The fact is that there is a great variety of points of view on all kinds of subjects in the church, including the creation and evolution. I have never heard of anyone being asked about her/his views on such things in a formal, worthiness-determining setting. __________________ "Do not despise the words of prophets, but test everything; hold fast to what is good; " 1 Thess. 5:21 (NRSV) We all trust our own unorthodoxies.

02-07-2006, 12:22 AM	#2
Parrot Head Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 763	You left us hanging! What great words did you say to rebuke the elder and instill in your friend the need to be baptized immediately?

02-07-2006, 12:32 AM	#3
bluegoose Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Northern California Posts: 2,919	Who said I rebuked him? Are you trying to tell me it wasn't sound science he was quoting and that the earth is actually older that 6,000 years??? :shock: As for my buddy, I just hope he sticks around long enough for the hoops season to get here to carry us through the tourney. Actually he is brand spankin new to all things religion and spiritual, and is taking his time with investigating the church. He'll be solid if he finds some answers.

02-07-2006, 01:01 AM	#4
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	I was recently with a 19 year old from Woods Cross, Utah, who was telling his investigator about the gift of the holy ghost. The elder said one day when he was 10, he went to Holiday Oil with his friends, and they put some candy bars in their pockets. They said, "come on Nathan, take a candy bar." Suddenly he had a feeling that stealing candy is wrong, and he left without taking anything. Then the elder testified of how thankful he was to have the gift of the holy ghost to teach him right from wrong that day. The investigator looked at me, rolled his eyes and said, "Us non-mormons refer to your holy ghost as common sense."