Escape - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

ERCougar · 06-02-2008, 04:53 PM

Sorry if this is miscategorized but my thoughts are more political than literary...

My wife just finished the book "Escape" by Carolyn Jessop, about her escape from the FLDS colony. She's been pointing out small excerpts from it that have gotten me thinking. Before reading this, both of us felt that Texas CPS overstepped their bounds; now I'm not so sure.

I wondered initially why they didn't just go in and remove the children who were the suspected victims. As you read this story though, you start to realize just how evil Warren Jeffs was. I used to think he was just some crazy fundamentalist, when in reality, this was man was far more--he was physically, sexually, and mentally abusing people of all ages, including young boys and girls. His crimes extended far beyond just religious misguidance. Families would disappear, and no one to this day, even IN the sect, knows where they are. The book is aptly titled--it was literally an escape to get out.

With that in mind, I'm starting to think all of the children in the colony were in "imminent danger". That's not to say they were all being abused, and I'm not saying all the adults were evil, but it's certainly hard to sort out who's in danger while the children are in the colony. I don't understand all the legal issues involved, but I can see where the CPS was coming from.

It's also sort of creepy to read some of the religious language these leaders were using. Much of it will sound very familiar to Mormons, and you realize that everything's in place for our leaders to do the same thing Jeffs did. It's a credit to them that they haven't.

I'm excited to read the whole book through now that my wife's done.

MikeWaters · 06-02-2008, 05:27 PM

Did you hear about the sex rites in Mormon temples as well? Scandalous.

I do agree that Jeffs is a bad man, who has led these folks along a path they should have never trod.

ERCougar · 06-02-2008, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Did you hear about the sex rites in Mormon temples as well? Scandalous.

I do agree that Jeffs is a bad man, who has led these folks along a path they should have never trod.

Sex rites in Mormon temples? Please expound...

MikeWaters · 06-02-2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Sex rites in Mormon temples? Please expound...

You've never encountered the literature by escaped Mormons exposing this?

ERCougar · 06-02-2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

You've never encountered the literature by escaped Mormons exposing this?

OK...I see your point.

I can't speak to how fair/unfair Jessop was in her book, as I haven't read it all. My wife does say she was fairly careful to point out some good people in the sect. Jessop seems to think that the base of the FLDS was decent until Jeffs took over. She mentions some of the former leaders in a fairly good light.

MikeWaters · 06-02-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERCougar

OK...I see your point.

I can't speak to how fair/unfair Jessop was in her book, as I haven't read it all. My wife does say she was fairly careful to point out some good people in the sect. Jessop seems to think that the base of the FLDS was decent until Jeffs took over. She mentions some of the former leaders in a fairly good light.

Yes, I've read about the turn that the FLDS took with Warren Jeffs as their leader. If the FLDS leaders had any smidgen of heavenly inspiration, it was lost when Warren Jeffs took the reigns.

BYU71 · 06-02-2008, 05:56 PM

I have seen this lady interviewed on TV and she seems credible. There is another one, I think a Jessop too that seems over the top to me.

While I think the Texans overreacted, I still think there are some sick people in that compound.

Venkman · 06-02-2008, 06:00 PM

CPS overstepped their authority. One good thing about Warren - he's in prison! Hopefully, they can get rid of any other sick f$@ks in the FLDS within constitutional bounds.

ERCougar · 06-02-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venkman

CPS overstepped their authority. One good thing about Warren - he's in prison! Hopefully, they can get rid of any other sick f$@ks in the FLDS within constitutional bounds.

One thing the book makes clear is that Warren has his supporters (including Jessop's husband) who are nearly as dangerous and now in power. It also makes it clear how difficult it is to escape, as well as protect any of the children while they're in the compound. Like I said earlier, she tells of a few families who "disappeared" and no one to this day knows where they are. One of her own children (whose full custody she had legally obtained) ran away several times back to the compound, and she talks about how difficult it was to get her back each time, even with the help of the police. Part of the problem in Colorado City is that most of the policemen were FLDS members and often turned a blind eye to things. Not sure if the same problem exists in Texas.

Given the impenetrability of the compound and the history of not just polygamy but frank sexual abuse, I'm not convinced that any child in this compound is not in imminent danger, which seems to be the legal standard (attorneys, correct me if I'm wrong).

Another question for attorneys: what is the standard for protection of women who have had children? I know in the ER, they're considered "emancipated", meaning they are considered adults in making medical decisions. Are they considered adults in child protection law as well?

Mars · 06-03-2008, 10:21 PM

Texas went too far in taking EVERY child without specific proof.

Good thing Jeffs is in prison. He lowered the marriage age from 18 down to as low as 12. He personally married four 12-15 year old girls.

06-02-2008, 04:53 PM	#1
ERCougar Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,589	Escape Sorry if this is miscategorized but my thoughts are more political than literary... My wife just finished the book "Escape" by Carolyn Jessop, about her escape from the FLDS colony. She's been pointing out small excerpts from it that have gotten me thinking. Before reading this, both of us felt that Texas CPS overstepped their bounds; now I'm not so sure. I wondered initially why they didn't just go in and remove the children who were the suspected victims. As you read this story though, you start to realize just how evil Warren Jeffs was. I used to think he was just some crazy fundamentalist, when in reality, this was man was far more--he was physically, sexually, and mentally abusing people of all ages, including young boys and girls. His crimes extended far beyond just religious misguidance. Families would disappear, and no one to this day, even IN the sect, knows where they are. The book is aptly titled--it was literally an escape to get out. With that in mind, I'm starting to think all of the children in the colony were in "imminent danger". That's not to say they were all being abused, and I'm not saying all the adults were evil, but it's certainly hard to sort out who's in danger while the children are in the colony. I don't understand all the legal issues involved, but I can see where the CPS was coming from. It's also sort of creepy to read some of the religious language these leaders were using. Much of it will sound very familiar to Mormons, and you realize that everything's in place for our leaders to do the same thing Jeffs did. It's a credit to them that they haven't. I'm excited to read the whole book through now that my wife's done.

06-02-2008, 06:00 PM	#8
Venkman Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: South Jordan, UT Posts: 1,799	CPS overstepped their authority. One good thing about Warren - he's in prison! Hopefully, they can get rid of any other sick f$@ks in the FLDS within constitutional bounds. __________________ WWPD?

06-03-2008, 10:21 PM	#10
Mars Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cougartown, USA Posts: 336	Texas went too far in taking EVERY child without specific proof. Good thing Jeffs is in prison. He lowered the marriage age from 18 down to as low as 12. He personally married four 12-15 year old girls. __________________ "Enter to Learn, Go Fourth and Eighteen!" :twisted:

06-02-2008, 05:27 PM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Did you hear about the sex rites in Mormon temples as well? Scandalous. I do agree that Jeffs is a bad man, who has led these folks along a path they should have never trod.

06-02-2008, 05:56 PM	#7
BYU71 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,084	I have seen this lady interviewed on TV and she seems credible. There is another one, I think a Jessop too that seems over the top to me. While I think the Texans overreacted, I still think there are some sick people in that compound.