Spiritual Journey with Variety

[Valentinus1]

I have talked a great deal with Archaea about the LDS church and how I could possibly find a place in it. I decided to take a short time away from message boards for a period of discernment. It wasn't long. I took the LDS Missionary Lessons. Fascinatingly, despite the possibility of internal controversy (myself) and external controversy (the church), I feel the pull to be part of it. Not to create controversy or create sociological change but to learn and grow in a much different perspective.

I agreed, through prayerful consideration, to allow myself to be baptized. My siblings and grandparents on my mother's side are ecstatic. My sentiments, however, are a little different. I'm not excited to be baptized. At best, I am humbled by the opportunity and privilege. I am still working everything out in my head. My brother will baptize me and with my brothers-in-law confirm me.

I do confess that I lack the child-like faith. This is where my variety begins to show.

I am fascinated, as said before, with Gnosticism and the odd relationship it indirectly has with LDS theology. In another way, I am just as intrigued by Humanism and how I can somehow apply it to my religious ideation. This has stemmed from Greg Epstein's Good Without God.

Oddly, I don't feel that I need to submit myself to any form of LDS creedalism by joining the church. I will maintain my LDS beliefs but instill my other contemporary beliefs as well.

Is it a time to celebrate? Yes it is. Is it also a time to take caution? Yes.

As Archaea stated before...it is not an accomodating religion for homosexuals. That is a chance I have to take.

Pistis. Pneuma. Pleroma.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Valentinus1

I have talked a great deal with Archaea about the LDS church and how I could possibly find a place in it. I decided to take a short time away from message boards for a period of discernment. It wasn't long. I took the LDS Missionary Lessons. Fascinatingly, despite the possibility of internal controversy (myself) and external controversy (the church), I feel the pull to be part of it. Not to create controversy or create sociological change but to learn and grow in a much different perspective.

I agreed, through prayerful consideration, to allow myself to be baptized. My siblings and grandparents on my mother's side are ecstatic. My sentiments, however, are a little different. I'm not excited to be baptized. At best, I am humbled by the opportunity and privilege. I am still working everything out in my head. My brother will baptize me and with my brothers-in-law confirm me.

I do confess that I lack the child-like faith. This is where my variety begins to show.

I am fascinated, as said before, with Gnosticism and the odd relationship it indirectly has with LDS theology. In another way, I am just as intrigued by Humanism and how I can somehow apply it to my religious ideation. This has stemmed from Greg Epstein's Good Without God.

Oddly, I don't feel that I need to submit myself to any form of LDS creedalism by joining the church. I will maintain my LDS beliefs but instill my other contemporary beliefs as well.

Is it a time to celebrate? Yes it is. Is it also a time to take caution? Yes.

As Archaea stated before...it is not an accomodating religion for homosexuals. That is a chance I have to take.

Pistis. Pneuma. Pleroma.

If this is not a step of faith, then I don't know what is. Good luck, and nice touch with the Greek. I hope the journey rewards you appropriately with faith, the Spirit and the Fullness of the the Spirit.

[RedHeadGal]

I think people join this church for a variety of reasons and with a variety of expectations. Best of luck to you as you find your own way.

Your approach reminds me a bit or people who become naturalized citizens of the US. They swear off allegiance to their former home, but often still keep that old passport and consider themselves dual nationals.

[Valentinus1]

Originally Posted by Archaea

If this is not a step of faith, then I don't know what is. Good luck, and nice touch with the Greek. I hope the journey rewards you appropriately with faith, the Spirit and the Fullness of the the Spirit.

Thanks Archaea. The baptism is set for this Saturday evening. I have hope for the best.

[Valentinus1]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

I think people join this church for a variety of reasons and with a variety of expectations. Best of luck to you as you find your own way.

Your approach reminds me a bit or people who become naturalized citizens of the US. They swear off allegiance to their former home, but often still keep that old passport and consider themselves dual nationals.

My expectations are not necessarily my own but are the possibilities and probabilities of what can and what will take place.

Oddly, I don't know what my former home is. In an upbringing that was peculiar and somewhat confusing, it is hard to determine if I ever had an original religious home. Christianity as a belief system, for myself, is fairly new (no more than 2 years).

Thanks Red.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Valentinus1

Thanks Archaea. The baptism is set for this Saturday evening. I have hope for the best.

Good luck and give a report if you are so inclined.

[Valentinus1]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Good luck and give a report if you are so inclined.

Considering this was my 2nd baptism in less than a year... I will only say that it is my first and only. I will discount the previous as an experience leading me to this point.

I suppose I have had different spiritual experiences in my life. However, none have come close to what I felt during the actual baptism on Saturday and confirmation on Sunday. When my brother gave the baptismal prayer, I felt my like my lungs had tightened (maybe with the thought of going under water) and I felt a deep comforting pressure on my shoulders and a 'warmth' in my heart. I don't know if this is typical but it was real for me and I had no idea what to expect from it.

As for the confirmation the following day, I felt it a little impersonal. I say this because it was done in front of the entire congregation but felt the same reassuring feelings and impressions I had experienced during baptism. Because I try to supress emotion, just a choice, I witheld from openly crying. I did weep for joy inside, however.

I am looking forward to where this leads me as a member of the LDS church. I know that I won't be a stereotypical Mormon (my sister's word) because of the journey thus far. At best, I can learn more and grow much more considerably than I would have in the previous religious 'rut' I was in before.

I do have a question...

Does everyone necessarily have to cry when bearing testimony? I'm not trying to be critical, and I do appreciate the testimonies and their spirit, but I'm just a little curious.

When Archaea made the invitation to share the experience, I was tempted to share what little testimony I have so far but wasn't sure if anyone else on the board would think it appropriate.

[MikeWaters]

Let me just say it straight out:

You may be exactly who you say you are. A gay non-member who dropped in out of nowhere, without explanation, on this largely defunct message board (that has probably a couple hundred "frenemies" out there, who would just love to jerk our chain), who ups and joins the church.

Or you might be a troll.

Now, you are under zero obligation to prove that you are not a troll. But if you have dected a whiff of silent skepticism, that is where it is coming from.

[MikeWaters]

I should add, that if you are indeed who you say you are, you should not be offended by skepticism. Because it has nothing to do with you. But rather, has to do with the history of this board.

[Valentinus1]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Let me just say it straight out:

You may be exactly who you say you are. A gay non-member who dropped in out of nowhere, without explanation, on this largely defunct message board (that has probably a couple hundred "frenemies" out there, who would just love to jerk our chain), who ups and joins the church.

Or you might be a troll.

Now, you are under zero obligation to prove that you are not a troll. But if you have dected a whiff of silent skepticism, that is where it is coming from.

I understand any hesitation anyone may have. Aside from my snide initial comment about Hafen (I think it was my first post), I believe I have been fairly diplomatic and open to learning. I owe a good deal of that to Archaea.

I didn't join the church to 'get the inside scoop' on Mormonism. I am not concerned about trivial things. I will admit that my fascination with Gnosticism triggered a great deal of fascination with LDS theology. Did that play any part in my conversion? Probably. Is that wrong? I don't think so and I hope not.

I'm not looking for attention. I hope that by beginning this thread I didn't let off a stench of extreme narcissism.

I suppose anyone who was an anti-Mormon (of varying degrees) who then converts to the church could be subjected to pessimism, cynicism and question. But that is all trivial. I am not going to entertain someone's gauging of my being a real Mormon.

I also suppose that you could entertain the same skepticism when an Atheist somehow becomes a Christian. Lee Strobel for example. I am fascinated by his conversion. When I first read 'The Case for Christ' several years ago, I was skeptical of his story.

My ignorance made me weigh 2 possible options:

1) He was not really a believer as he so claims and is dooping the Christian masses to get rich off of a good Orthodox book sale, or

2) He was a well educated person who had been dooped by Christian propaganda and promises.

Obviously, I was biased and misguided.

In your skepticism, Mike there are the same options:

1) Valentinus is a deceitful and manipulative liar claiming a spiritual experience of conversion to LDS to further some underlying personal agenda, or

2) He actually had a confirming experience to move forward with the LDS church despite the controversy of sexual orientation or any other problems that could arise.

Honestly, Mike, the sexual orientation thing really is a non-issue. I am not going to ask the leadership of the church to change the church's position on the matter. I may not agree with everything they say or think they may know but I'm not going to disrupt the church and its three-fold mission. We have disgruntled Mormons and anti-Mormons for that.

I apologized for my comments under the Hafen thread. Still, I have nothing, as you said, to prove.