BYU Football to come

[Surfah]

While tough to admit, I have subscribed to Goatnapper's belief that BYU football is done as we know it, the perennial top 25 power with an occasional season where we flirt with greatness is long gone.

I am afraid that the best we can hope for is to stay competitive within the MWC. As recruiting standards have become more stringent we are not able to bring in top recruits and with our program in a downward spiral we struggle to even land the top LDS talent. Ngata, Lutui, Olson, Stratton, Phillip, etc. are all examples.

There are several things that factor into this. In my opinion we have not recruited the polynesian pipeline very well. I think losing Ricks' football program as a feeder has hurt also. I think the AD department has not been able to operate without constant meddling from the admin, and I am not sure that there has been much support from the last admin and the current one as well.

I am very disappointed with this season. Bronco needs to hire a DC. I thought he would have learned from Crowton that being a coordinator and head coach is difficult. I think that most of us put on the blue lenses with the resurgence of our offense. But the success of Beck, Brown, and Harline only clouded more serious issues with this team. The defense and special teams need to be reevaluated. Not necessarily the scheme, although I think the 3-3-5 needs to go because sending 8 guys every play gets you burned especially with our DBs, but personnel on the field and sidelines.

I really think that we could have duplicated this record with Crowton at the helm. In fact I think in a few ways it could have been better. I think Crowton could have got a bit more out of Watkins senior campaign and with BM as DC he could have been more focused and the D may not have been so bad, at least fundamentally. This years schedule was very weak in comparison to last years.

Next year the offense will be back and prolific. Brown, Harline, Beck and company will be strong. But I am concerned about the D. Up front we will be weak and I don't even want to think about the secondary. The D could be very ugly. Which is unfortunate because I think Beck deserves better. I have seen several posts on the other board calling Beck out. He had a hell of a game and a hell of a year. It's just too bad that the D has put them into such difficult predicaments. Kind of like the O 2 years ago who kept giving our D lousy field position. No amount of points is enough it seems for our D. We could not rely on them at all this year which is really too bad.

I am still anxious to see who the last non-conference game will be. I was discouraged by Holmoe's comments that we could go out amd schedule a top 10 team but we're not ready. When will we be ready? Besides, how does losing to a top 10 team hurt? I only see good from playing a national power. We get national TV exposure. We give recruits a chance to see that we play the top teams. Isn't that part of the reason that BM went to Oregon St? Because they played BYU that year? If we lose, so what we were underdogs anyway, and if we win we make a name for ourselves and establish a bit of confidence hopefully.

Anyway, sorry for my rant. I know it seems chicken little at best, especially on the heels of a poor bowl game showing, but this is my realistic view of BYU football to come. Tell me I'm wrong folks.

[MikeWaters]

I'm afraid you are right. I don't see a stellar class coming in, which bodes poorly for the future.

It means it will likely be years before the prospect of playing for bronco mendenhall is attractive (if ever).

we never shied away from playing tough teams when Lavell was around.

now we are a bunch of pussies.

[Goatnapper'96]

Mike says:

I'm afraid you are right. I don't see a stellar class coming in, which bodes poorly for the future.

It means it will likely be years before the prospect of playing for bronco mendenhall is attractive (if ever).

we never shied away from playing tough teams when Lavell was around.

now we are a bunch of pussies.

I respond:

I think we are glamorizing a bit. Perhaps you don't remember things before Ty real well, but we did not start to play good teams consistently until Ty Detmer. That is also the time when we started having consistent rebuilding years every other year, until even the good years became mediocre, starting in about '98.

BYU football had its best recruiting years from the post-Ty years until '96. Think about it, the Y was routinely landing highly sought after non-LDS kids in John Walsh, Ronnie Jenkins and Jamaal Willis. That was the highpoint in recruiting, IMO. However, because of the improvements within the WAC and the fact that BYU was playing good programs having good years, versus the occasional good program in a down year luck of the good years in the 80's, the teams did not look as good as the 80's. Still competitive however. In fact I propose that two of the best ever Y teams were '94 and '96. Give the '94 team any of the schedules from the early 80's and they probably go undefeated. BYU really came into its own in recruiting, but the limitations of the lack of depth was exposed as BYU started playing 6-7 decent-really good teams a year rather than 3-4 from the past. What happened after that is a mystery, but my theory is that it is a mixture of the divergence of values between what is socially acceptable and what the HC demands, the growth of the internet and talk radio (i.e. the John Walsh effect), the negative exposure of the Ronney Jenkins incident, Lavell and Norm and the crew getting frustrated with the admin and HC and an HC gang out to prove that Lavell Edwards' football team was not larger than BYU (this is the roots of the modern Mormon Mullah movement alive and well at the BYU). The result is that BYU backed off of the non-LDS kids, as evidenced by 62 RMs on the team with about 45 RMs on scholarship. Crowton made an effort to reverse that trend and some of the unfortunate realities of that endeavor were some of the foremost reasons his records are now in the Eugene 1st Ward. That was the last gasp effort, but it died an ugly death. Bronco's approach is not so much his own genius, but the reality of the situation. He will make do with the best kids the Y can recruit whose backgrounds almost assure them the ability to cope and survive at BYU. The majority will be LDS and the non-LDS kids will be scrutinized. The pool of athletes trully availiable to BYU has shrunk. There is no way but to expect that this will negatively impact recruiting. Furthermore, the trend will be more and more top notch LDS kids going elsewhere. BYU's lack of national exposure and limited opportunities for championships will send those with better options elsewhere. One of the foremost reasons for this is the reality that it is no longer expected for talented folks to sacrifice worldly prestige and success by taking up the cross and giving service to the BYU. It is no longer what it once was, the jewel of a regionally dominant religion. As the Church goes worldwide, it has no choice but to allow BYU to become somewhat of a casualty.

Now as for Return to Glory, the best days are behind BYU, but I still think if folks take into account the restrictions the program faces it can still be fun to follow the Cougars, but my perspective is impacted very much by my experiences as a West Pointer. I realize that Army will never be the team it was in the 40s-50s, but I still enjoy watching the team play. When BYU does have a year that they win 8-9 games and perhaps a conference championship, it makes it even more sweeter knowing that BYU beat a number of programs it had no reason beating.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

However, because of the improvements within the WAC and the fact that BYU was playing good programs having good years, versus the occasional good program in a down year luck of the good years in the 80's, the teams did not look as good as the 80's.

I couldn't agree more. That '96 team was one of the all time greats and I also agree with you that '94 would have looked MUCH better with an 80's schedule that did not include UCLA and Notre Dame.

[Tooelean]

Oh Ye of little faith! Many of these same issues faced Coach Edwards when he began. I remember the great Mormon QB Danny White opting for ASU rather than BYU. I remember I think it was Bruce Hurst all everything super athlete that left the state of Utah also for ASU. Coach Edwards did not start with the best talent. He found the right offensive scheme, very good assistants, and we started to have some success. The success helped get better recruits. If we can some how break through with an 8 win season, beat Utah, win a bowl game, we are off to the races. If we have success more of the top LDS athletes will want to come.
As the world grows more evil I like the idea of going to football war with those that have the attributes of the Army of Helaman, rather than those who would worry about paternity suits, drug busts, assualt convictions. In the long run we will be able to get these good, and very athletic players. The players that want to stand for something.
I know this makes me appear like Pollyanna. I think it can be done.
Go easy on me, I hope the anguish of the last few years will be done. A new and glorious period of BYU football will begin

[creekster]

I went to school with him. Sort of; I was a freshman dweeb while he was a senior and as you noted, he was all-star everything. As you might imagine, out hallway interactions were hsort and mostly imagined.

[MikeWaters]

I know this is changing the topic a bit, but I often wonder where people get the notion that the world is getting to be more evil.

Crime is trending down. Drug use has been trending down.

By and large, the poor people of the world are getting richer which I am guessing is leading to fewer people starving.

Religiosity in America is higher in younger persons more recently.

I think the answer is that for most Mormons and many other Christians, there is this millienist streak, that we probably inherited both genetically and culturally, that suspects the end of the world is around the corner.

Bushman says JS believed in 1830 that the end of the world was about 6 years away.

[realtall]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Bushman says JS believed in 1830 that the end of the world was about 6 years away.

I haven't read the book but I tend to believe that if Joseph really did think that then perhaps his actions regarding church organization, migration, as well as canonized revelations would have been markedly different.

Just an uniformed opinion.

[Archaea]

To me, in some respects, this is a myth perpetuated by every generation in and out of the Church.

Sin is more reported than every before; we know about it more, but whether it's more evil now or before, I'm not certain I really buy into that garbage.

I remember the Sixties, and things were wanton then, and we can read about the 20s or the Roaring 90s before that.

In a way, it's really a way of building our selves up or justifying our failures.

I am fearful that we don't have an administration capable of making BYU successful.

I fear the Utes got the best in Whit and the end of the season sort of proves it.

This season was a modest failure with marginal reason for hope. Recruiting appears to be less than good. Not surprising that we haven't had a winning season since 2001.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by realtall

I haven't read the book but I tend to believe that if Joseph really did think that then perhaps his actions regarding church organization, migration, as well as canonized revelations would have been markedly different.

Just an uniformed opinion.

If JS believed this in 1830, I think it is doubtful he believed it some six years later.

The point being that there was a sense of urgency. A sense that the millenium was nearing. Thus the need to gather to Zion (missouri).

Unlike some others of his time, as far as I know, JS never made specific predictions about when the 2nd coming would be.