What made people follow Joseph Smith?

[DrumNFeather]

Was it Joseph the Man/Prophet?

Or his message?

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by DrumNFeather

Was it Joseph the Man/Prophet?

Or his message?

I think your question is Rhetorical but in my opinion most of the people followed for the message.

[DrumNFeather]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

I think your question is Rhetorical but in my opinion most of the people followed for the message.

You're probably right, but I thought I would throw it out there. With all the focus on his imperfections, he still developed quite a following and I feel that while most religions are focussed on the message, the person delivering that message could be just as important to the success or failure of a religion...

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by DrumNFeather

Was it Joseph the Man/Prophet?

Or his message?

Joseph himself was a big part of why people came, his message is why people stayed.

Both Bushman and Brodie's book demonstrate that Joseph the Prophet was a highly flawed and at times misguided vessel. Interestingly enough the early saints recognized this much more than we do today. Multiple quotations are provided in the books that show that the early saints understood the difference between Joseph speaking as a man, and Joseph speaking as a prophet.

I believe it was Heber Kimball who said that anybody closely associated with Joseph during the KBS ordeal, could not believe he was a prophet.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by DrumNFeather

You're probably right, but I thought I would throw it out there. With all the focus on his imperfections, he still developed quite a following and I feel that while most religions are focussed on the message, the person delivering that message could be just as important to the success or failure of a religion...

I think the real testament to his message was the fact that it thrived once he was gone. too many people discount the "by the fruits ye shall know them"

Just curious for those who no longer believe. How do you reconcile the fact that the church is continuing to grow? Has many faithful members. Has 65k plus missionaries out in the field who willingly give up two years of their young adulthood to live in crapholes and work 70+ hours a week preaching a gospel? How about the great welfare programs and the call to action when disaster strikes? How about the simple fact that once a month most members abstain from eating for a day and give that money to help people? Even the perpetual education program where members give money to help people in third world countries gain educations?

Does this not fulfill when Jesus said "By their fruits ye shall know them?"

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by DrumNFeather

You're probably right, but I thought I would throw it out there. With all the focus on his imperfections, he still developed quite a following and I feel that while most religions are focussed on the message, the person delivering that message could be just as important to the success or failure of a religion...

It is a bit ironic that by trashing his character, anti-Mormons set up a situation where his message becomes more powerful. The easiest way to write off Joseph Smith is paint him up as a flattering salesman who charmed people into this gospel. If you paint him up as a philandering, vindictive, treasure hunting horse thief you lose that angle.

Of course, put him on the witness stand, and the Georgetown educated master attorney in our midst would certainly slice up both his character and message.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

Does this not fulfill when Jesus said "By their fruits ye shall know them?"

I'm a believer but I don't think it does.

If you shall know them = one and only true church with priesthood power and fullness of the gospel, then NO.

If ye shall know them = a good church with good people, then YES.

[tooblue]

For far too many that's not enough ... they say where are your great philosophers, scientists, artists, writers ... when in fact the body of the church as a whole is doing more to affect positive change in the world than any other contemporary body of persons or singular individual in existence.

The Perpetual education fund alone will educate the third world and do more to change the fortunes of families and communities in third world countries than any UN sponsored program could ever hope to accomplish.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by tooblue

For far too many that's not enough ... they say where are your great philosophers, scientists, artists, writers ... when in fact the body of the church as a whole is doing more to effect positive change in the world than any other contemporary body of persons or singular individual in existence.

what is your evidence of this?

I think there is a good argument where I live, that the LDS church is one of th *least-involved* churches when it comes to community service.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by tooblue

The Perpetual education fund alone will educate the third world and do more to change the fortunes of families and communities in third world countries than any UN sponsored program could ever hope to accomplish.

The fund is not working like designed, fyi. They are running into many problems concerning the loans issued.