Well, I'm glad that Elder Quentin L. Cook is not related to Gene R. Cook

[Travis Henry]

Well, at least they're not closely related. The first thing I said to my wife was "I hope he's not related to Gene R. Cook."

Gene R. Cook has provided me with the best example I've ever seen of a church leader dispensing opinion in a setting where it could easily be taken as authoritative guidance. My experience comes from a mission conference where Cook was in the area presidency. In his mind, you don't ask investigators to pray, you tell them to pray and kneel down. If the point is to give missionaries more confidence in this area, fine. But it didn't stop there. He then told his personal experience of not asking his date (to become his wife) to kneel down, he just kneeled down and prayed with his future wife ON THE FIRST DATE about whether they should get married.

Now, I don't particularly have an issue with someone that wants to do this, I think it's incredibly dumb and probably manipulative- but if that's the way they want to roll, fine. But I don't like the idea of Cook making this seem like a grand idea to a bunch of 19 and 20 year old kids when they're in a very impressionable setting. I have heard of far too many instances of people supplanting genuine experience with a dating partner, with "I prayed about it, and I have the feeling we should get married" after one month- then things don't end up working out (either the engagement is cut off or there's divorce). Cook's advice makes matters worse in an area where I genuinely feel that young people need to be a lot more cautious.

[Jeff Lebowski]

BTW, welcome to the board.

[SeattleUte]

Gene R. Cook was the regional representative or whatever they called them in my mission, Ecuador-Quito, '77-79. He spoke to us a lot. He must have been under 40 years old then. He was indelible. Why was he let go?

[Travis Henry]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Gene R. Cook was the regional representative or whatever they called them in my mission, Ecuador-Quito, '77-79. He spoke to us a lot. He must have been under 40 years old then. He was indelible. Why was he let go?

I think he got up there in age, I don't think it was for any other particular reason.

What do you mean by indelible?

My father had a terrible experience on his mission with Alvin R. Dyer who would later become a counselor in the First Presidency and then dropped from the First Presidency and never called into the Quorum of the 12 when President McKay died (the only time in church history that a 1st Presidency counselor never became an apostle).

Dyer was over the European mission (a conglomeration of missions, kind of a mission president over individual mission presidents) when my dad was there between 1959-1961. Dyer had a son who was called on a mission, but basically was his dad's stooge as his dad toured Europe. Dyer himself was bad enough, but he would also allow his son to browbeat and intimidate (with various threats, physical and "my dad is going to send you home if you don't watch out") individual missionaries in the various missions. My dad was no slouch as a missionary, he was a traveling assistant for a considerable portion of his mission which included at least 3 different GAs as fellow missionaries that I can recall off the top of my head.

My dad, a former bishop, high counselor, etc. father of 4 active children, all married in the temple- told me Dyer's actions made him question his testimony for about 20 years (all the while remaining completely active). He came to the simple conclusion that these guys sometimes become unhinged and you need to think for yourself. But he was also hesitant to send any of us (me and 2 brothers), out to the mission field because of this experience. In his view, you come across screwballs in a position of authority when out on the mission at a time when you're extremely vulnerable and open to suggestion. Then you get back, realize that you were treated poorly and given horrible advice from said screwballs and it may adversely affect one's testimony.

My experience in this area was mild, not particularly testimony-damaging. But my reaction may have been tempered from my father's advice of letting the screwballs roll off your back and take their advice with a grain of salt.

[SeattleUte]

I never had and to this day don't have a negative impression of Cook, even though I no longer share his Mormon faith. Rumor had it he was rich by then. I do recall him as very bright and a great orator. It think we were a little scared of him. (Coincidentally he had been my MP's companion.) He spoke to us a lot. I remember the way he spoke Spanish so clearly. His diction and conjugation were impeccable, and he had a large vocabulary, but his pronunciation was terrible. He couldn't roll his r's. I still remember how he said "hermanos y hermanas" and smile to myself.

I heard Dwyer was one of the worst racists of that time.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Travis Henry

I think he got up there in age, I don't think it was for any other particular reason.

What do you mean by indelible?

My father had a terrible experience on his mission with Alvin R. Dyer who would later become a counselor in the First Presidency and then dropped from the First Presidency and never called into the Quorum of the 12 when President McKay died (the only time in church history that a 1st Presidency counselor never became an apostle).

Dyer was over the European mission (a conglomeration of missions, kind of a mission president over individual mission presidents) when my dad was there between 1959-1961. Dyer had a son who was called on a mission, but basically was his dad's stooge as his dad toured Europe. Dyer himself was bad enough, but he would also allow his son to browbeat and intimidate (with various threats, physical and "my dad is going to send you home if you don't watch out") individual missionaries in the various missions. My dad was no slouch as a missionary, he was a traveling assistant for a considerable portion of his mission which included at least 3 different GAs as fellow missionaries that I can recall off the top of my head.

My dad, a former bishop, high counselor, etc. father of 4 active children, all married in the temple- told me Dyer's actions made him question his testimony for about 20 years (all the while remaining completely active). He came to the simple conclusion that these guys sometimes become unhinged and you need to think for yourself. But he was also hesitant to send any of us (me and 2 brothers), out to the mission field because of this experience. In his view, you come across screwballs in a position of authority when out on the mission at a time when you're extremely vulnerable and open to suggestion. Then you get back, realize that you were treated poorly and given horrible advice from said screwballs and it may adversely affect one's testimony.

My experience in this area was mild, not particularly testimony-damaging. But my reaction may have been tempered from my father's advice of letting the screwballs roll off your back and take their advice with a grain of salt.

Dyer's the one that gave the famous talk about how black people were fence sitters in the preexistence. I have a copy.

[ute4ever]

What was Dyer's view on stay-at-home moms who don't put out?

[creekster]

Wasn't Gene R. Cook the one that supposedly got Mick Jagger to admit he was doing the devil's work during a plane ride to somewhere? Or was that a mormon myth?

[Travis Henry]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Dyer's the one that gave the famous talk about how black people were fence sitters in the preexistence. I have a copy.

Funny thing is, I didn't even know this about Dyer before you just told me.

I've come to the opinion that within the leadership of the church there are three types: Shepherds, Managers, and Butt-Kickers. All three play their role and keep things generally on the correct path. But that doesn't particularly mean you don't get a butt-kicker every once in awhile who does screwy things. It's not something you should lose your testimony over, but their screwy statements and actions shouldn't be explained away as "right for the time." They should be called for what they are- screwy and the opinion of a man with some horrendous ideas.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by creekster

Wasn't Gene R. Cook the one that supposedly got Mick Jagger to admit he was doing the devil's work during a plane ride to somewhere? Or was that a mormon myth?

LOL. Yes. I read that story once. Somebody gave me a hard copy of a talk he gave.

But that story has been retold so many times that I wonder if it is a Mormon legend.

Either way, I can picture a half-drunk Mick Jagger sitting in first class thinking "A Mormon leader? Hey this could be fun. I am going to blow his mind."