So is the majority opinion that the baseball player's bishop - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Archaea · 02-04-2008, 03:07 PM

deserves a pass?

I understand the nature of LDS culture to give the benefit of a doubt. And usually, I agree, but I can't fathom too many reasons why the EE was pulled, because the HC basically rules out the more difficult reasons, i.e., boozing it up or sleeping with a girlfriend.

Surfah has stated he could see the SP ignore evidence and just support the bishop. Obviously not an airtight case, but suggestive. I seem to remember the Kearl name but for what I know not.

Big Fat Meanie speculated on grounds and none of them really motivated me to want to pull an EE. Somebody, I don't care to research it, stated the bishop had told the baseball team's coach to have players be more active. It sounds like the bishop was an attendance NAZI and his pulling the EE, while within his authority, seems out of line.

To me, this just reeks of abuse of power. Didn't anybody ever have those professors that disliked the jocks? We had those who liked them, but I had those who would do everything to screw them as well. I imagine we can have bishops do that. I suppose I must be so heterdox that it bothers me and nobody else. Hey, and I did attend Church even though ours started at 1:00 PM, so it's not as if I'm advocating people making Church optional.

Jeff Lebowski · 02-04-2008, 03:11 PM

If we can take the SLTrib story at face value, then it bothers me tremendously. But I think some decent reasons for reserving final judgement have been offered.

Archaea · 02-04-2008, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

If we can take the SLTrib story at face value, then it bothers me tremendously. But I think some decent reasons for reserving final judgement have been offered.

I agree there could be more, but as I sit and try to speculate, I can't see too much that could have been missed. Again, we'll likely never know.

MikeWaters · 02-04-2008, 03:14 PM

church starts for me at 1pm 1 year out of every 3. I think I had a ward at BYU that got out at 5 or 6pm. I'd go to EQ and there would seriously be only 4 guys there.

BYU is a big enough place now that I imagine most students don't know of a single athlete in their classes. Esp. the "olympic" athletes. So no, I don't think there are going to be any here that say that some professors mistreated athletes. If anything, it is the opposite. Look at Tavernari.

Tex · 02-04-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

If we can take the SLTrib story at face value, then it bothers me tremendously. But I think some decent reasons for reserving final judgement have been offered.

I agree, and the fact that it was brought to the attention of both the school president and an apostle deserves some consideration, at least to diffuse the "abuse of power" charge.

jay santos · 02-04-2008, 03:22 PM

Taking the article at face value, the guy was obviously mistreated.

Begs the question for me, why haven't we seen this happen with high profile athletes? On average a couple high profile FB or BB athletes have gotten kicked out every year for the past 20 years, but it's always been the Honor Code office involved, not a bishop pulling an EE. I like the model better of the bishops having control of this rather thant he Honor Code office, but then I wouldn't want a bunch of renegade, mullah bishops trying to make statements either.

myboynoah · 02-04-2008, 03:25 PM

I still don't understand why the kid gets a pass and the Bishop all the blame. How hard is it to maintain an EE? It's the simplest thing in the world. Maybe, as an athlete, he's been given passes in life and came to expect the same in this case. To me this isn't so much a religion thing as it is a life thing. Time to grow up.

Harsh I know, but I spent a weekend coaxing/extorting a research paper out of my 12-year-old son. I'm not too tolerant right now of kids unwilling (more like resistent) to do the simplest of tasks.

SteelBlue · 02-04-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myboynoah

I still don't understand why the kid gets a pass and the Bishop all the blame. How hard is it to maintain an EE?

Well, isn't that the issue here? The question is are there some Bishop's who make it more difficult for some students?

Archaea · 02-04-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myboynoah

I still don't understand why the kid gets a pass and the Bishop all the blame. How hard is it to maintain an EE? It's the simplest thing in the world. Maybe, as an athlete, he's been given passes in life and came to expect the same in this case. To me this isn't so much a religion thing as it is a life thing. Time to grow up.

Harsh I know, but I spent a weekend coaxing/extorting a research paper out of my 12-year-old son. I'm not too tolerant right now of kids unwilling (more like resistent) to do the simplest of tasks.

That assumes the bishop did some exhorting. Let's assume he did some, so what?

His home bishop determined he was a good kid and deserved an endorsement, but now some rent-a-bishop knows the kid better?

I don't believe these rent-a-bishops should do much more than help counsel with drug and alcohol, and sexual issues. They don't know the life of the kid and to pull it ever sounds abusive.

SoCalCoug · 02-04-2008, 03:47 PM

What if the facts are as stated in the Trib article? Then I'd say it's an abuse of power.

Because I have no reason to doubt the validity of the facts as stated, that will be my opinion until (if) new facts emerge.

There have been a number of people saying they know that particular bishop/professor, and it doesn't surprise them he'd be as strict as characterized. I think that's significant.

02-04-2008, 03:07 PM	#1
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	So is the majority opinion that the baseball player's bishop deserves a pass? I understand the nature of LDS culture to give the benefit of a doubt. And usually, I agree, but I can't fathom too many reasons why the EE was pulled, because the HC basically rules out the more difficult reasons, i.e., boozing it up or sleeping with a girlfriend. Surfah has stated he could see the SP ignore evidence and just support the bishop. Obviously not an airtight case, but suggestive. I seem to remember the Kearl name but for what I know not. Big Fat Meanie speculated on grounds and none of them really motivated me to want to pull an EE. Somebody, I don't care to research it, stated the bishop had told the baseball team's coach to have players be more active. It sounds like the bishop was an attendance NAZI and his pulling the EE, while within his authority, seems out of line. To me, this just reeks of abuse of power. Didn't anybody ever have those professors that disliked the jocks? We had those who liked them, but I had those who would do everything to screw them as well. I imagine we can have bishops do that. I suppose I must be so heterdox that it bothers me and nobody else. Hey, and I did attend Church even though ours started at 1:00 PM, so it's not as if I'm advocating people making Church optional. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

02-04-2008, 03:11 PM	#2
Jeff Lebowski Charon Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the heart of darkness (Provo) Posts: 9,564	If we can take the SLTrib story at face value, then it bothers me tremendously. But I think some decent reasons for reserving final judgement have been offered. __________________ "... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr.

02-04-2008, 03:25 PM	#7
myboynoah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!! Posts: 4,530	I still don't understand why the kid gets a pass and the Bishop all the blame. How hard is it to maintain an EE? It's the simplest thing in the world. Maybe, as an athlete, he's been given passes in life and came to expect the same in this case. To me this isn't so much a religion thing as it is a life thing. Time to grow up. Harsh I know, but I spent a weekend coaxing/extorting a research paper out of my 12-year-old son. I'm not too tolerant right now of kids unwilling (more like resistent) to do the simplest of tasks. __________________ Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith.

02-04-2008, 03:47 PM	#10
SoCalCoug Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 3,059	What if the facts are as stated in the Trib article? Then I'd say it's an abuse of power. Because I have no reason to doubt the validity of the facts as stated, that will be my opinion until (if) new facts emerge. There have been a number of people saying they know that particular bishop/professor, and it doesn't surprise them he'd be as strict as characterized. I think that's significant. __________________ Get your stinking paws off me, you damned, dirty Yewt! "Now perhaps as I spanked myself screaming out "Kozlowski, say it like you mean it bitch!" might have been out of line, but such was the mood." - Goatnapper "If you want to fatten a pig up to make the pig MORE delicious, you can feed it almost anything. Seriously. The pig is like the car on Back to the Future. You put in garbage, and out comes something magical!" - Cali Coug

02-04-2008, 03:14 PM	#4
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	church starts for me at 1pm 1 year out of every 3. I think I had a ward at BYU that got out at 5 or 6pm. I'd go to EQ and there would seriously be only 4 guys there. BYU is a big enough place now that I imagine most students don't know of a single athlete in their classes. Esp. the "olympic" athletes. So no, I don't think there are going to be any here that say that some professors mistreated athletes. If anything, it is the opposite. Look at Tavernari.

02-04-2008, 03:22 PM	#6
jay santos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,177	Taking the article at face value, the guy was obviously mistreated. Begs the question for me, why haven't we seen this happen with high profile athletes? On average a couple high profile FB or BB athletes have gotten kicked out every year for the past 20 years, but it's always been the Honor Code office involved, not a bishop pulling an EE. I like the model better of the bishops having control of this rather thant he Honor Code office, but then I wouldn't want a bunch of renegade, mullah bishops trying to make statements either.