Cheney's full-court press on Obama re: torture

[MikeWaters]

tells me that he must be guiltier than hell. He's going on the offensive to try and influence the public that if he broke any laws, it was because of his ardent desire to protect Americans, and that in fact, his law-breaking saved lives.

And that if you don't support what he did, you want Americans to die.

Yes, it is cynical of Cheney. Despicable in fact. But what do you expect from someone who went to war on lies, without a plan, and shot his friend?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

tells me that he must be guiltier than hell. He's going on the offensive to try and influence the public that if he broke any laws, it was because of his ardent desire to protect Americans, and that in fact, his law-breaking saved lives.

And that if you don't support what he did, you want Americans to die.

Yes, it is cynical of Cheney. Despicable in fact. But what do you expect from someone who went to war on lies, without a plan, and shot his friend?

Whatever one thinks of what Cheney did while in office, he's right about one thing: if you're going to release memos about the internal Bush admin torture debate, you'd better release them all. Right now Obama is releasing the bad, and keeping classified the good.

He chose to open that Pandora's Box, so it's only fair the public get both sides so it can form an informed opinion.

If the enhanced interrogation techniques really aren't worth it. If what was gained is not worth the cost, wouldn't that bear itself out by releasing the results?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Tex

Whatever one thinks of what Cheney did while in office, he's right about one thing: if you're going to release memos about the internal Bush admin torture debate, you'd better release them all. Right now Obama is releasing the bad, and keeping classified the good.

He chose to open that Pandora's Box, so it's only fair the public get both sides so it can form an informed opinion.

If the enhanced interrogation techniques really aren't worth it. If what was gained is not worth the cost, wouldn't that bear itself out by releasing the results?

so you agree we should have an independent investigation, I take it.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

so you agree we should have an independent investigation, I take it.

I didn't say that.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Tex

I didn't say that.

Of course not. You want all documents that support torture to be released, and nothing against torture to be released.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

Whatever one thinks of what Cheney did while in office, he's right about one thing: if you're going to release memos about the internal Bush admin torture debate, you'd better release them all. Right now Obama is releasing the bad, and keeping classified the good.

He chose to open that Pandora's Box, so it's only fair the public get both sides so it can form an informed opinion.

If the enhanced interrogation techniques really aren't worth it. If what was gained is not worth the cost, wouldn't that bear itself out by releasing the results?

Why? You are suggesting that the ends justify the means, which isn't at all Obama's contention. Obama and others believe that waterboarding is torture, and torture is absolutely wrong, no matter what is gleaned from the torture. What possible difference does it make if it worked (and, by the way, the strong evidence we have so far indicates it didn't work at all).

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

so you agree we should have an independent investigation, I take it.

I think there should be an independent investigation. I also believe that all the documents should be released. What possible reason does Obama have for keeping anything classified other than for political expediency?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Of course not. You want all documents that support torture to be released, and nothing against torture to be released.

Nonsense. Where have I ever advocated such a thing?

I think my first preference would probably to be not to release any at all. But now that the negative documents have been released, it seems only sensible to release the positive ones as well.

Cheney's request is nothing more than a request for full disclosure.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Tex

Nonsense. Where have I ever advocated such a thing?

I think my first preference would probably to be not to release any at all. But now that the negative documents have been released, it seems only sensible to release the positive ones as well.

Cheney's request is nothing more than a request for full disclosure.

Then we need a commission.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Why? You are suggesting that the ends justify the means, which isn't at all Obama's contention. Obama and others believe that waterboarding is torture, and torture is absolutely wrong, no matter what is gleaned from the torture. What possible difference does it make if it worked.

I am suggesting nothing of the sort. Rather, I believe the American people deserve all the available data, so as to make an informed decision about whether they think it was justified or not. Some will, some won't.

If the issue is as cut-and-dried as you think it is, releasing the evidence of its success will only underscore that it wasn't worth it. What are you afraid of?

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

(and, by the way, the strong evidence we have so far indicates it didn't work at all).

What an amusingly ironic statement. "The evidence that it worked hasn't been released, therefore we can conclude that it didn't work."