Virtually everyone will be saved... - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Cali Coug · 05-23-2006, 08:10 PM

I was reading Archaea's post on cougarboard today and got to thinking (dangerous for me to do!).

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=1912346

I think virtually everyone will make it to the Celestial Kingdom at some point. Maybe not immediately (but only because we wouldn't be prepared for it and wouldn't want to be there anyways since we would feel unworthy).

Here is my rationale: God is perfect. God loves us. God wants the best for us. As a perfect being who loves us and wants us to succeed, God will design a plan that HELPS us succeed. God will find ways to steer us away from failure. It could take thousands of years. It could take millions. But eventually, I have to believe that God will give us so many opportunities that we will almost all make it to live with Him again.

I simply cannot believe in a God that is less merciful than I am, and I know I would do everything in my power to get my children to live with me again.

This isn't to say we shouldn't try to be obedient now. We have been instructed to be obedient now, and I am certain it brings blessings. In fact, some of those blessings, if missed now, could very well be unrecoverable later. I don't know how much it matters in the eternal scheme of things to miss out on blessings today, but I feel like there is a real importance in getting them now and doing what we are supposed to be doing (again, because God is perfect and he has said it is important).

Thoughts?

fusnik11 · 05-23-2006, 08:15 PM

This feeds into the train of thought of an aspect of the Adam/God theory....

tooblue · 05-23-2006, 08:23 PM

I do not disagree with your post ... that being said I think you place far too much faith in souls to make the choice to progess and return to live with God ... God cannot compel us to make one choice over another no matter how much he loves us.

As well, our concept of time is so woefully limited that the phrase millions (of years) bears no relevance ... I suppose that once one has made the decision to no longer progress, that will be his or her state for eternity.

MikeWaters · 05-23-2006, 08:25 PM

I tend to agree with you hoyacoug. But only to a point.

I believe that there will be many that will not want to be in the celestial kingdom. "Who needs the hassle?" Just like many of us would prefer not to be bishops or mission presidents, many of us would prefer to not do the things required at the highest levels of godhood, whatever those things are.

Archaea · 05-23-2006, 08:44 PM

Too many of us fall so far short of the mark, too many don't give a whit whether they should succeed or not and many of us just are too lazy to deserve to go there. Notice I include myself.

God cannot tolerate sin in the least.

No I only hope I can get my children there so that somebody from there might visit me in one of the lesser places.

OhioBlue · 05-23-2006, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I tend to agree with you hoyacoug. But only to a point.

I believe that there will be many that will not want to be in the celestial kingdom. "Who needs the hassle?" Just like many of us would prefer not to be bishops or mission presidents, many of us would prefer to not do the things required at the highest levels of godhood, whatever those things are.

my thoughts (almost) exactly.

Or postulated differently: People will end up where they most want to be.

UtahDan · 05-23-2006, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioBlue

my thoughts (almost) exactly.

Or postulated differently: People will end up where they most want to be.

I want to be near the ice cream and the nachos. Where do you think that is?

ute4ever · 05-24-2006, 12:04 AM

Look at it like this:

A very wealthy, righteous, successful man has three sons and needs to choose one to run the family business.

The oldest, in his teenage years, fell into the wrong crowd, adopted behavior very detrimental to the family and the dad threatened to kick him out of the house, to which he responded by saying he'd be glad to leave and gave everyone the bird on his way out.

That left two sons to choose from. One of them did all he could to learn about the business. He excelled in school, received scholarships to Harvard, Stanford, and Utah, and learned how to overcome his failures.

The other wanted to take over the business, but he didn't want to sacrifice his time and talents. He desired to boast to his friends that he is a successful CEO, but spent his time watching Survivor and criticizing people online who don't wear white shirts to church. He graduated from Boise State with a B- average and pouted and blamed others when life's trials didn't work out the way he thought they should.

The dad gives the business to the scholar, but surprises the slacker with a VP position that carries a key to the executive lounge, a company car, a hot secretary and several assistants that make his job easier. Although initially disappointed, after his first week on the job he realized he still has it pretty damn good, better than he expected.

Cali Coug · 05-24-2006, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioBlue

my thoughts (almost) exactly.

Or postulated differently: People will end up where they most want to be.

I agree with that, though I feel that given enough time, most everyone will make the choice to get to the celestial kingdom.

I feel like God will provide an infinite number of opportunities to people to clean themselves of sin and advance to something better. Eventually people will accept those opportunities.

I think it is called the Plan of Happiness for a reason.

Oh, and TAKE THAT Utah Dan! I just moved one post ahead of you!

myboynoah · 05-24-2006, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I tend to agree with you hoyacoug. But only to a point.

I believe that there will be many that will not want to be in the celestial kingdom. "Who needs the hassle?" Just like many of us would prefer not to be bishops or mission presidents, many of us would prefer to not do the things required at the highest levels of godhood, whatever those things are.

Like the others that have posted, this is how I see it. Have so since my mission.

05-23-2006, 08:10 PM	#1
Cali Coug Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 5,996	Virtually everyone will be saved... I was reading Archaea's post on cougarboard today and got to thinking (dangerous for me to do!). http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=1912346 I think virtually everyone will make it to the Celestial Kingdom at some point. Maybe not immediately (but only because we wouldn't be prepared for it and wouldn't want to be there anyways since we would feel unworthy). Here is my rationale: God is perfect. God loves us. God wants the best for us. As a perfect being who loves us and wants us to succeed, God will design a plan that HELPS us succeed. God will find ways to steer us away from failure. It could take thousands of years. It could take millions. But eventually, I have to believe that God will give us so many opportunities that we will almost all make it to live with Him again. I simply cannot believe in a God that is less merciful than I am, and I know I would do everything in my power to get my children to live with me again. This isn't to say we shouldn't try to be obedient now. We have been instructed to be obedient now, and I am certain it brings blessings. In fact, some of those blessings, if missed now, could very well be unrecoverable later. I don't know how much it matters in the eternal scheme of things to miss out on blessings today, but I feel like there is a real importance in getting them now and doing what we are supposed to be doing (again, because God is perfect and he has said it is important). Thoughts?

05-23-2006, 08:15 PM	#2
fusnik11 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,506	This feeds into the train of thought of an aspect of the Adam/God theory.... Last edited by fusnik11; 05-24-2006 at 10:02 PM.

05-23-2006, 08:44 PM	#5
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Too many of us fall so far short of the mark, too many don't give a whit whether they should succeed or not and many of us just are too lazy to deserve to go there. Notice I include myself. God cannot tolerate sin in the least. No I only hope I can get my children there so that somebody from there might visit me in one of the lesser places. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

05-23-2006, 08:23 PM	#3
tooblue Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,016	I do not disagree with your post ... that being said I think you place far too much faith in souls to make the choice to progess and return to live with God ... God cannot compel us to make one choice over another no matter how much he loves us. As well, our concept of time is so woefully limited that the phrase millions (of years) bears no relevance ... I suppose that once one has made the decision to no longer progress, that will be his or her state for eternity.

05-23-2006, 08:25 PM	#4
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I tend to agree with you hoyacoug. But only to a point. I believe that there will be many that will not want to be in the celestial kingdom. "Who needs the hassle?" Just like many of us would prefer not to be bishops or mission presidents, many of us would prefer to not do the things required at the highest levels of godhood, whatever those things are.

05-24-2006, 12:04 AM	#8
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	Look at it like this: A very wealthy, righteous, successful man has three sons and needs to choose one to run the family business. The oldest, in his teenage years, fell into the wrong crowd, adopted behavior very detrimental to the family and the dad threatened to kick him out of the house, to which he responded by saying he'd be glad to leave and gave everyone the bird on his way out. That left two sons to choose from. One of them did all he could to learn about the business. He excelled in school, received scholarships to Harvard, Stanford, and Utah, and learned how to overcome his failures. The other wanted to take over the business, but he didn't want to sacrifice his time and talents. He desired to boast to his friends that he is a successful CEO, but spent his time watching Survivor and criticizing people online who don't wear white shirts to church. He graduated from Boise State with a B- average and pouted and blamed others when life's trials didn't work out the way he thought they should. The dad gives the business to the scholar, but surprises the slacker with a VP position that carries a key to the executive lounge, a company car, a hot secretary and several assistants that make his job easier. Although initially disappointed, after his first week on the job he realized he still has it pretty damn good, better than he expected.