Re Q's poll: One of my biggest lifetime regrets...

[SeattleUte]

With respect to EQ's poll, I can say truthfully that one of my biggest regrets in life is failing to announce opposition to the priesthood ban. How many of you here ever actually told an African American investigator that he couldn't hold the priesthood, or her children or husband (if AA) couldn't hold the priesthood, upon baptism into your faith, because of their skin color? I have done it many times, I'm very ashamed to say, and I'm sure the experience has been a cause of distress to myself as well as those to whom I directed this ugly message. I did it because my MP said to do it, and that it came from the top. (True story: I was girding myself to tell an AA man and his wife about this in July 1979 when on the morning of the day I was going to have to do it the AP's came by and woke us, brandishing a Miami Herald with a cover story and picture of SWK announcing the "revelation.")

Recently I was reminded of this painful experience. The Nobel Prize winning German novelist Gunter Grass made a career out of in his works calling the German people to repentance for WWII. Then last month he disclosed that as a young man he spent some time in the SS. The outcry against him was loud, calling him hypocrit. But I suppose the pain born of that memory may have fueled his artistic achievements.

This brought to mind my own experience carrying out the priesthood ban. While maybe a watered down version of Grass' experience, it nevertheless is a regrettable chapter of my life. My biggest regret concerning my mission is that I didn't stand up against this. Had I done so it would have been one of my proudest lifetime moments, and a lesson in courage I could have given to my children.

[Archaea]

While I agree I was sorrowful that the priesthood ban existed, don't understand how it was created exactly and am delighted it has been eliminated, stating political opposition to a private organization's policies doesn't exactly sound like great courage, as the repurcussions would have been minor. BTW, I was only a member for a short time before the ban was eliminated.

Loss of income, loss of life or loss of professional license are incidents in my humble opinion of great courage, but critisizing a private organization about its internal policies doesn't sound so courageous, nor does your refusal to stand up to these unfortunate policies show much cowardice. You appear to reviewing it revisionistically.

There really are few opportunities today for true courage. And political courage today rarely amounts to true courage.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Don't sweat it, SU. Any idiot can look back on life and figure out what he/she should have done. It's deciding what to do now that counts. My investment history is proof of this principle.

[fusnik11]

It bothers me there isn't a definitive answer to the priesthood ban. For the life of me I can't figure out why it hasn't been addressed.

I don't know how the restored gospel can truly be heard, when a huge part of the population of this earth has no answer to why the church bearing the good news of the restoration, did not allow for them to be fully invested members.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

With respect to EQ's poll, I can say truthfully that one of my biggest regrets in life is failing to announce opposition to the priesthood ban. How many of you here ever actually told an African American investigator that he couldn't hold the priesthood, or her children or husband (if AA) couldn't hold the priesthood, upon baptism into your faith, because of their skin color? I have done it many times, I'm very ashamed to say, and I'm sure the experience has been a cause of distress to myself as well as those to whom I directed this ugly message. I did it because my MP said to do it, and that it came from the top. (True story: I was girding myself to tell an AA man and his wife about this in July 1979 when on the morning of the day I was going to have to do it the AP's came by and woke us, brandishing a Miami Herald with a cover story and picture of SWK announcing the "revelation.")

Recently I was reminded of this painful experience. The Nobel Prize winning German novelist Gunter Grass made a career out of in his works calling the German people to repentance for WWII. Then last month he disclosed that as a young man he spent some time in the SS. The outcry against him was loud, calling him hypocrit. But I suppose the pain born of that memory may have fueled his artistic achievements.

This brought to mind my own experience carrying out the priesthood ban. While maybe a watered down version of Grass' experience, it nevertheless is a regrettable chapter of my life. My biggest regret concerning my mission is that I didn't stand up against this. Had I done so it would have been one of my proudest lifetime moments, and a lesson in courage I could have given to my children.

You ever read William Perry Shunn's website? He is very similar to you. Pretty smart guy, deeply jealous of those of us who attended prestigious non-reeeeeeeesearch institutions, who eventually decided that the LDS Church was not what it claimed it was. I don't know what he did for a living, but he started a web page and wrote a short story about his experiences as a missionary.

He spent a great deal of time justifying his lack of testicular fortitude as a result of LDS Culture..blah..blah..blah. Now don't get me wrong, clearly the mormon culture and its sponsored University emasculated Wayne "I CAN"T BELIEVE YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THAT CHURCH!" Howard, but Mac proved that a gentle giant can undo the big blue machine. I respect this about you. You don't blame the LDS Church for the fact that in hindsight you consider yourself a string-puller.

If I am not mistaken Elder Leroy Wilson, a Quito Ecuador alum like yourself, served with one of the the first LDS missionary of African descent, if you had extended long enough you might have met him. I understand that one of the top high school junior qbs is an AA out in Spokane who is LDS. My nipples are already hard thinking of that young man leading BYU to yet another victory over Wyoming in Laramie. In fact, methinks I will thank the Poke fans for their sacrifice that made that event and all the "healing" possible.

My biggest regret was not lying to Cadet Heather Webber when I had inadvertantly answered her question "Yes Sir!" and she inquired as to whether or not she looked like a man..........

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

It bothers me there isn't a definitive answer to the priesthood ban. For the life of me I can't figure out why it hasn't been addressed.

I don't know how the restored gospel can truly be heard, when a huge part of the population of this earth has no answer to why the church bearing the good news of the restoration, did not allow for them to be fully invested members.

I think the answer is that God did not want the priesthood extended. I don't think in a religion based upon faith and a conviction that the leadership receives "revelation" is going to get any more definitive.

Either you can accept the answer or you can't. I just think that those of an apologetic nature find reconciling the concept of faith and revelation with what our culture and society finds morally reprehensible is unsettling in this case.

My belief is that there are trials of faith for us all. There are parts of the restoration I don't quite understand and often think things would have been easier if things were not done that way, but I still believe God is in charge. I also must say that I have admiration beyond what words can capture for the blacks who joined the Church and stayed true to their covenants before President Kimball received the revelation.

However, I thought you found that enlightenment when President Hinckley told people to treat folks of different ethnicities than ours nice? Didn't you interpret that as your "closure" on the issue and the LDS Church's emphatic admittance of wrongdoing?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

My biggest regret was not lying to Cadet Heather Webber when I had inadvertantly answered her question "Yes Sir!" and she inquired as to whether or not she looked like a man..........

LOL. Excellent.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

However, I thought you found that enlightenment when President Hinckley told people to treat folks of different ethnicities than ours nice? Didn't you interpret that as your "closure" on the issue and the LDS Church's emphatic admittance of wrongdoing?

Appreciate the thoughts, looking back it's always easy to say that, if in the same position I would do this, or I would have done that, it's always funner being an armchair QB, than actually the one pulling the strings, errr, trigger.

I think GBH in part addressed my 'issues' and certain levels of 'closure' were reached in the most recent of Priesthood Conferences. I still want more, and in my search and sorjourn in this life a few questions go unanswered. Being the self proclaimed one true church of Christ that is lead by His hand, is it that far out to think Jesus, through His annointed leadership would answer the questions concerning certain 'trails of faith?'

Unfortunately I haven't had the balls to ask certain questions to the annointed leadership when given the opportunity. Maybe I can fancy myself another sit down and see if I can get to the bottom of this, until that happens, we'll all be left to conjecture, opinion, and dependent on prayers that oft times go unanswered concerning these types of things. (Maybe that's an indictment on my faith, as I'm unable to shed certain preconcieved notions)

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

Appreciate the thoughts, looking back it's always easy to say that, if in the same position I would do this, or I would have done that, it's always funner being an armchair QB, than actually the one pulling the strings, errr, trigger.

I think GBH in part addressed my 'issues' and certain levels of 'closure' were reached in the most recent of Priesthood Conferences. I still want more, and in my search and sorjourn in this life a few questions go unanswered. Being the self proclaimed one true church of Christ that is lead by His hand, is it that far out to think Jesus, through His annointed leadership would answer the questions concerning certain 'trails of faith?'

Unfortunately I haven't had the balls to ask certain questions to the annointed leadership when given the opportunity. Maybe I can fancy myself another sit down and see if I can get to the bottom of this, until that happens, we'll all be left to conjecture, opinion, and dependent on prayers that oft times go unanswered concerning these types of things. (Maybe that's an indictment on my faith, as I'm unable to shed certain preconcieved notions)

There may be answers or there may not. It seems to me that faith is a pretty basic doctrine and learning to trust God even if one finds inconsistencies is something all have to do. I just accept that this happened and if God did not approve it took a long time to get it corrected. Same with polygamy.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

My biggest regret was not lying to Cadet Heather Webber when I had inadvertantly answered her question "Yes Sir!" and she inquired as to whether or not she looked like a man..........

You have now piqued my interest, why you believed Cadet Heather Webber looked like a man. Could she have used some ta-ta implantations, or was it her rough, manlike exterior?

In light of Heather Lockleer's appearance, it bothers me than any woman named Heather should not be a knockout.