Please Evaluate the Contemporary LDS Church

[Sleeping in EQ]

according to the following factors using a scale from 1 (low) to 10 (high):


1. Internal Control: Amount of internal political and social power exercised by leader(s) over members; lack of clearly defined organizational rights for members.


2. External Control: Amount of external political and social influence desired or obtained; emphasis on directing members’ external political and social behavior.


3. Wisdom/Knowledge Claimed by leader(s); amount of infallibility declared or implied about decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations; number and degree of unverified and/or unverifiable credentials claimed.


4. Wisdom/Knowledge Credited to leader(s) by members; amount of trust in decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations made by leader(s); amount of hostility by members towards internal or external critics and/or towards verification efforts.


5. Dogma: Rigidity of reality concepts taught; amount of doctrinal inflexibility or “fundamentalism;” hostility towards relativism and situationalism.


6. Recruiting: Emphasis put on attracting new members; amount of proselytizing; requirement for all members to bring in new ones.


7. Front Groups: Number of subsidiary groups using different names from that of main group, especially when connections are hidden.


8. Wealth: Amount of money and/or property desired or obtained by group; emphasis on members’ donations; economic lifestyle of leader(s) compared to ordinary members.


9. Sexual Manipulation of members by leader(s) of non-tantric groups; amount of control exercised over sexuality of members in terms of sexual orientation, behavior, and/or choice of partners.


10. Sexual Favoritism: Advancement or preferential treatment dependent upon sexual activity with the leader(s) of non-tantric groups.


11. Censorship: Amount of control over members’ access to outside opinions on group, its doctrines or leader(s).


12. Isolation: Amount of effort to keep members from communicating with non-members, including family, friends and lovers.


13. Dropout Control: Intensity of efforts directed at preventing or returning dropouts.


14. Violence: Amount of approval when used by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s).


15. Paranoia: Amount of fear concerning real or imagined enemies; exaggeration of perceived power of opponents; prevalence of conspiracy theories.


16. Grimness: Amount of disapproval concerning jokes about the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).


17. Surrender of Will: Amount of emphasis on members not having to be responsible for personal decisions; degree of individual disempowerment created by the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).


18. Hypocrisy: amount of approval for actions which the group officially considers immoral or unethical, when done by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s); willingness to violate the group’s declared principles for political, psychological, social, economic, military, or other gain.

[Tex]

You can get the full "Cult Detection Evaluation Frame" with intro here:

http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html

[JohnnyLingo]

Odd that you're only asking us to rate the negative aspects of the church.

You're basically asking, "How sucky is the church at this?" for 18 factors.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Originally Posted by Tex

You can get the full "Cult Detection Evaluation Frame" with intro here:

http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html

There was a reason I left the intro material off. I wanted people to just evaluate the factors.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Odd that you're only asking us to rate the negative aspects of the church.

You're basically asking, "How sucky is the church at this?" for 18 factors.

It is not odd that you take a wildly paranoid interpretation of my post. I'm not trying to dwell on the negative, the frame is designed to measure certain factors. I'm just looking for honest evaluations and have no expected result in mind.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

according to the following factors using a scale from 1 (low) to 10 (high):


1. Internal Control: Amount of internal political and social power exercised by leader(s) over members; lack of clearly defined organizational rights for members.


2. External Control: Amount of external political and social influence desired or obtained; emphasis on directing members’ external political and social behavior.


3. Wisdom/Knowledge Claimed by leader(s); amount of infallibility declared or implied about decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations; number and degree of unverified and/or unverifiable credentials claimed.


4. Wisdom/Knowledge Credited to leader(s) by members; amount of trust in decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations made by leader(s); amount of hostility by members towards internal or external critics and/or towards verification efforts.


5. Dogma: Rigidity of reality concepts taught; amount of doctrinal inflexibility or “fundamentalism;” hostility towards relativism and situationalism.


6. Recruiting: Emphasis put on attracting new members; amount of proselytizing; requirement for all members to bring in new ones.


7. Front Groups: Number of subsidiary groups using different names from that of main group, especially when connections are hidden.


8. Wealth: Amount of money and/or property desired or obtained by group; emphasis on members’ donations; economic lifestyle of leader(s) compared to ordinary members.


9. Sexual Manipulation of members by leader(s) of non-tantric groups; amount of control exercised over sexuality of members in terms of sexual orientation, behavior, and/or choice of partners.


10. Sexual Favoritism: Advancement or preferential treatment dependent upon sexual activity with the leader(s) of non-tantric groups.


11. Censorship: Amount of control over members’ access to outside opinions on group, its doctrines or leader(s).


12. Isolation: Amount of effort to keep members from communicating with non-members, including family, friends and lovers.


13. Dropout Control: Intensity of efforts directed at preventing or returning dropouts.


14. Violence: Amount of approval when used by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s).


15. Paranoia: Amount of fear concerning real or imagined enemies; exaggeration of perceived power of opponents; prevalence of conspiracy theories.


16. Grimness: Amount of disapproval concerning jokes about the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).


17. Surrender of Will: Amount of emphasis on members not having to be responsible for personal decisions; degree of individual disempowerment created by the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).


18. Hypocrisy: amount of approval for actions which the group officially considers immoral or unethical, when done by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s); willingness to violate the group’s declared principles for political, psychological, social, economic, military, or other gain.

I don't think we rate very highly as a cult. I don't see sexual favoritism, hypocrisy or any of the typical factors being an issue.

[jay santos]

The church Jesus started was as culty as a cult can get. I don't like that term. A cult is only bad if it's not true or not being led in a righteous way.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Will someone actually evaluate the factors instead of opining?

This is exactly, Tex, why I didn't include the intro information.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

Will someone actually evaluate the factors instead of opining?

This is exactly, Tex, why I didn't include the intro information.

Maybe others will take the time to do it. It doesn't interest me. You end up with some quantification on a scale of how cult-like we are, which I'd need to compare with other church's ratings as a baseline to find any meaning, but then I wouldn't know if my scale is the same as other's so my rating would be meaningless and so would an average of a handful other CG'ers.

I'm more interested to hear your take on the issue. If you were interested enough to post it you must have an opinion.

[Sleeping in EQ]

1. Internal Control: Amount of internal political and social power exercised by leader(s) over members; lack of clearly defined organizational rights for members.

4. This could be a 3 or lower if they'd just publish and circulate the Handbook of Instructions.


2. External Control: Amount of external political and social influence desired or obtained; emphasis on directing members’ external political and social behavior.

4. Mostly pressure to support marriage initiatives these days, but the ERA stuff was behind the scenes and pretty sneaky, really.


3. Wisdom/Knowledge Claimed by leader(s); amount of infallibility declared or implied about decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations; number and degree of unverified and/or unverifiable credentials claimed.

6-7. Sometimes this gets even higher.


4. Wisdom/Knowledge Credited to leader(s) by members; amount of trust in decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations made by leader(s); amount of hostility by members towards internal or external critics and/or towards verification efforts.

8-9. Probably higher than leaders actually claim for themselves.

Lingo's hostility to me in this post is a classic example of making people who want to discuss anything that might be construed as negative the problem.

5. Dogma: Rigidity of reality concepts taught; amount of doctrinal inflexibility or “fundamentalism;” hostility towards relativism and situationalism.

5.


6. Recruiting: Emphasis put on attracting new members; amount of proselytizing; requirement for all members to bring in new ones.


7.


7. Front Groups: Number of subsidiary groups using different names from that of main group, especially when connections are hidden.

3. Not much of this going on since the ERA stuff (at least, that I know of).


8. Wealth: Amount of money and/or property desired or obtained by group; emphasis on members’ donations; economic lifestyle of leader(s) compared to ordinary members.

6-7. The amount of tithing talks can get a little creepy.


9. Sexual Manipulation of members by leader(s) of non-tantric groups; amount of control exercised over sexuality of members in terms of sexual orientation, behavior, and/or choice of partners.

5. Their was more of this during the old days. The instruction to ask married people about oral sex in the early 80s was in this direction, as have been a a recent comment in GC.

10. Sexual Favoritism: Advancement or preferential treatment dependent upon sexual activity with the leader(s) of non-tantric groups.

Today this is a 1.

11. Censorship: Amount of control over members’ access to outside opinions on group, its doctrines or leader(s).

2. Little control, but there's sometimes pressure not to go poking around.

12. Isolation: Amount of effort to keep members from communicating with non-members, including family, friends and lovers.

2.

13. Dropout Control: Intensity of efforts directed at preventing or returning dropouts.

6.

14. Violence: Amount of approval when used by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s).


1. Not much of this since the 19th century.

15. Paranoia: Amount of fear concerning real or imagined enemies; exaggeration of perceived power of opponents; prevalence of conspiracy theories.

3.

16. Grimness: Amount of disapproval concerning jokes about the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).


6-7.

17. Surrender of Will: Amount of emphasis on members not having to be responsible for personal decisions; degree of individual disempowerment created by the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).

4.

18. Hypocrisy: amount of approval for actions which the group officially considers immoral or unethical, when done by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s); willingness to violate the group’s declared principles for political, psychological, social, economic, military, or other gain.

2.