Consequence of Mormon support for Proposition 8?

[SeattleUte]

Is the LDS Church's support for Proposition 8 harming its chances of succeeding? If I were running things I'd ask the question because I think that's very possible. I can see a lot of people, especially undecideds, being repelled by Mormon support for Proposition 8, and thereby turned to support it. Especially those aware of Mormonism's sordid civil rights history might get the heebee jeebies being on the Mormons' side, particularly in California. I wonder if Proposition 8 opponents are bothered by Mormon support for it. It seems to me this may all be very counterproductive, indeed alienate a lot of reflective Mormons. Mormonism may be giving Proposition 8 opponents a huge gift, becuase Mormonism has 0 credibility in this field. On the contrary.

My view, for what it's worth, is that Mormonism is doing itself a lot of damage here that will take a long time to repair, if ever. It's happened before. All you who care about Mormonism, this may not just be a matter of conscience, this may be a matter bearing on the long term vitality of the institution. This is opening up a lot of unhealed wounds. This may be the real nightmare scenario. Remember this post.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

My view, for what it's worth, is that Mormonism is doing itself a lot of damage here that will take a long time to repair, if ever.

You mean like the diminutive conversion rates amongst blacks 30 years after the 1978 announcement? Get a grip.

[MikeWaters]

I'm impressed that SU thinks LDS church is so noteworthy and influential on the scene.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I'm impressed that SU thinks LDS church is so noteworthy and influential on the scene.

This actually supports my point. My point is that (in this field) the LDS Church is more an influence through negative impression than positive influence or persuasion. Surely you must agree that the impact of the two is not necessarily in equal measure and is probably mutually exclusive.

Taking a step further, what are these Mormon legions using as their rhetorical weapons? Turning a mutitude of Mormon rank and file loose on California to enunciate why gay marriage is bad is probably the best thing that could happen to gay marriage supporters. I can't think of anything at the end of the day that would wind up reflecting worse on the Church. Just look at some of the horrible stuff you all have quoted form your meetings. If I were an LDS leader I'd admonish everyone to stay out of it and keep their yaps shut.

[MikeWaters]

What kind of hit is the Vatican going to take for its support?

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Adam

Are you saying the bizarre ban on blacks making temple covenants and receiving the priesthood didn't damage the Church?

The damage is present and ongoing the most extensive may be yet to to come. It is spreading inexorably like peritonitis. As I have stated, the priesthood ban cuts deep and wide, beginning with its hokey creationist rationale.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

What kind of hit is the Vatican going to take for its support?

Well, for starters, the Vatican is a shadow of what it once was in terms of civic and moral authority. So this will just continue the process of its gradual decline in importance that has been immense in the aggregate. Still, it can absorbe more blows than Mormonism. I also wonder if its approach will be more measured.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Well, for starters, the Vatican is a shadow of what it once was in terms of civic and moral authority. So this will just continue the process of its gradual decline in importance that has been immense in the aggregate. Still, it can absorbe more blows than Mormonism. I also wonder if its approach will be more measured.

In other words, virtually no hit.

Fighting against gay marriage by a church does not surprise anyone. It's not a big shocker that most churches are fighting this.

The more important question is what hit does the church take among some of its own members.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Adam

Are you saying the bizarre ban on blacks making temple covenants and receiving the priesthood didn't damage the Church?

There are nearly 1 million black members worldwide. You tell me how catastrophically damaging it was. SU makes it sound like this is something that would essentially destroy the church. Not only is it baseless hyperbole, it's not even close to the truth.

The church didn't please everyone with its stance on blacks and the priesthood and it won't please everyone with their Prop 8 stance. C'est la vie. It won't prevent the work from rolling forth. From my vantage point, the church is still on schedule to cover the earth by the end of the Millennium.

[il Padrino Ute]

If this brings down the LDS Church, I'd imagine you'd be conflicted, SU.

On one hand, you'd be happy to see the demise of the Mormon church. On the other, you'd have to make an effort to find another target of your hatred.