Those of you that believe in this war...

[MikeWaters]

I'm curious...do you wish you were there fighting?

Would you send your children? Would you encourage your children to go?

The usual response would be, "I would not encourage it, but if he/she wanted to do go, I would support them."

Well, that's just neutrality. That's not taking a stand.

I know people will have different answers. Some would feel this is a worthy cause to send their children to their death.

Me, personally, I would discourage my son from going.

I think that something is wrong in America when for people with means, this is merely a hypothetical that is far removed from reality. The idea of your child dying as a member of the military.

It's a lot easier to send others to their deaths, rather than your own blood.

[creekster]

This is a very good and very difficult question. I know I would be very unhappy if my son was sent to that theatre of operations.

I gather from your post that you would support a reinsitution of the draft to make the burden of this and any war more lilely to affect all socioeconomic classes?

[MikeWaters]

I think if the burden is spread between all people, we will make better decisions about war.

I recognize there are advantages to a volunteer military. Very significant advantages.

But we must also recognize the disadvantages. Perhaps there could be some sort of hybrid system.

This brings to mind another question. Imagine if there were mandantory govt/military service after high school in this country. I wonder what stand the church would take, as it would definitely impact the missionary program (probably for the worse).

[non sequitur]

Does anybody still believe in this war? I can understand people being sucked into the hype of the war in the beginning, but does anybody honestly think we have accomplished anything that even remotely justifiies the expense and loss of life we have experienced?

[Archaea]

my first evaluation was that it was unnecessary, but I hope I ultimately am found to be in error.

Those who were against the war will always find evidence that the war was a waste of time, which it ultimately be proven to be. However, having the constant negative rhetoric shoved down my throat by media and naysayers makes me wonder if I'm seeing the whole picture. I doubt I'm receiving adequate information on all aspects. The reason I am somewhat suspect of my conclusions are anecdotal discussions with military personnel who've spent time there. Almost without exception, they have not felt their time was a waste there.

The wisdom of this conflict needs to stand the test of time, even though you and everybody else have long made up your minds. I guess I'm the proverbial fence sitter with one foot on the ground. It may be that the constant negative press is the result of accurate reporting, but given my few forays with the press I tend to doubt it.

[OhioBlue]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

Does anybody still believe in this war? I can understand people being sucked into the hype of the war in the beginning, but does anybody honestly think we have accomplished anything that even remotely justifiies the expense and loss of life we have experienced?

I do.

And I'm far from a right-wing conservative Bush fan. I don't really know what expenses justify what results in this conflict-ridden world--and expenses that involve human lives are the most costly of all. Your question is not an easy one, although the use of the qualifier "remotely" makes it a little easier for me to answer the way I did.

I guess for me it comes down to the good that was done by removing Saddam. I wish it could have been done a different way, but I also believe that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis whose voices will never make it onto the pages of our newspapers or the screens of our news broadcasts may also answer your question similarly.

Hammer away.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I'm curious...do you wish you were there fighting?

Would you send your children? Would you encourage your children to go?

The usual response would be, "I would not encourage it, but if he/she wanted to do go, I would support them."

Well, that's just neutrality. That's not taking a stand.

I know people will have different answers. Some would feel this is a worthy cause to send their children to their death.

Me, personally, I would discourage my son from going.

I think that something is wrong in America when for people with means, this is merely a hypothetical that is far removed from reality. The idea of your child dying as a member of the military.

It's a lot easier to send others to their deaths, rather than your own blood.

Do you believe in having public sanitation? Do you wish to unclog the sewer lines yourself or would you encourage your children to do it?

Do you believe in incarcerating the most violent criminals in maximum security prisons? Do you want to guard them yourself or send your children?

No one ever wants to be killed in a war, have a loved one be killed in a war or have to kill others day in and day out. These are terrible, terrible things and one cannot overstate impact of them. There are, however, many vitally important things that have to be done in life that are dangerous and unpleasant.

We unclog the sewers so that thousands don't die from cholera and dysentary (as happens every year in parts of the world). We guard the dangerous criminals so that they aren't out committing more violence. Sometimes we fight wars to prevent a greater harm.

You can, of course, argue that any particular war is unjust or doesn't produce the desired end or is for the wrong reason or is not ultimately winnable etc, etc, etc. These would all be reasons not to have a particular war.

I see what you are trying to say which is, emotionally, it is easier to get behind personal sacrifice when our country is being invaded ala WWII or the cause is otherwise more "just." Then again, many at that time also believed that FDR had tricked us into war and that Hitler was Europe's problem. I'm not saying we are in a similar situation now, just that the emotional response to any war is very subjective.

I would fight this war if I were required to, but obviously I have not volunteered. That is why I think those people who have are heros, because they are doing it so that I don't have to.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by OhioBlue

I do.

And I'm far from a right-wing conservative Bush fan. I don't really know what expenses justify what results in this conflict-ridden world--and expenses that involve human lives are the most costly of all. Your question is not an easy one, although the use of the qualifier "remotely" makes it a little easier for me to answer the way I did.

I guess for me it comes down to the good that was done by removing Saddam. I wish it could have been done a different way, but I also believe that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis whose voices will never make it onto the pages of our newspapers or the screens of our news broadcasts may also answer your question similarly.

Hammer away.

I pretty much agree though it is a close call. I think that there are benefits, hope for much greater benefits ultimately, and think we have suffered huge detriments as well.

With the utmost respect to those who oppose the war, I think that if you really get to a place where you just can't understand why any rational person would support it you have probably done so as a result of imagining a world where there was and is some bright shining peril free choice to be made which would unburden us, protect us, and make everyone like us again. That world does not exist.

It is legitimate to oppose the war, there are good reasons to. I just tire a little of the "how can you possibly?" sort of thinking because it fails to acknowledge that there are good reasons to be in favor of the war both at its inception and now. Now in the final analysis it may well be the the reasons against are more pursuasive than the reasons for it. I have a tough time, however, taking seriously those who dogmatically insist that there is no reason at all for it. Once you believe that then you are free to ascribe evil motives and believe in conspiracies, etc, and that stuff doesn't advance the conversation.

[MikeWaters]

I would fight this war if I were required to, but obviously I have not volunteered. That is why I think those people who have are heros, because they are doing it so that I don't have to.

I'm glad it appears that no one will "have to" die in Iran and North Korea.

I don't agree with the premise that we "have to" be there in Iraq, obviously.

FMCoug called it national "suicide" to leave Iraq.

Sunk costs is something that Bush and the military should think about. That is why as the costs mount, their belief in the wisdom of the decision increases.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

It is legitimate to oppose the war, there are good reasons to. I just tire a little of the "how can you possibly?" sort of thinking because it fails to acknowledge that there are good reasons to be in favor of the war

the original premise of this thread was that people who believe the fighting in the streets of Iraq would be taking place in America if we weren't in Iraq is ridiculous.

Now maybe some people actually believe this. They think that there would be a sectarian war between Shiites and Sunnis in the streets of America, that there would be thousands of IED's exploding all over American freeways.

I can't help these people. They are too far down the rabbit hole.