LDS group for blacks founded under direction of Harold B. Lee - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Tex · 05-23-2007, 02:13 PM

A kindler, gentler Tex notes:

Just noticed that the Genesis Group mentioned in the article was founded by Hinckley, Monson, and Packer in 1971, under the direction of none other than Harold B. Lee.

That would seem to undercut the idea, borne of the oft-cited "not while I'm prophet" quote, that Lee was a racist. Is it possible some of the folks who hypothesized such (even suggested that God shortened his tenure as a result) have been too hasty in their judgment of the man?

http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/whatis.htm

myboynoah · 05-23-2007, 02:27 PM

Well, I guess it showed he had a heart and was willing to reach out, which is not surprising considering he was the Prophet. It would have been much more impressive had he been the mouthpiece for change that his successor eventually became.

I don't pretend to the know the heart of any of these men and suspect none of us do. I have a hard time throwing the "racist" label on them. They were products of their time and culture, as were we all that lived back then.

I remember the Genesis Group coming to speak during a Sac Meeting when I was young. Oddly, I don't recall the event generating any buzz about lifting the priesthood ban. I think that is strange.

Even stranger, I remember talking to a recent convert before my mission who talked of the difficulty he had with the priesthood ban. I couldn't understand his concerns.

Archaea · 05-23-2007, 03:15 PM

I don't remember Lee being the facilitator of the Genesis Group, I sure thought Hinckley may have been. Nonetheless, it was an outreach group for AA members so they could feel connected, but it did not advocate extension of the priesthood, or full benefits of membership, so the existence of one does nothing to aid in the argument that President Lee did anything to extend the benefits of the priesthood to all worthy members.

creekster · 05-23-2007, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

I don't remember Lee being the facilitator of the Genesis Group, I sure thought Hinckley may have been. Nonetheless, it was an outreach group for AA members so they could feel connected, but it did not advocate extension of the priesthood, or full benefits of membership, so the existence of one does nothing to aid in the argument that President Lee did anything to extend the benefits of the priesthood to all worthy members.

No one says it does mean that Lee was trying to extend the priesthood. There is some sentiment that Lee was a racist (with which assertion I do not agree) and the formation of the Genesis group suggests that at the least he was supportive of programs to be supportive of AAs. The website linked by Tex say that Hinckley, Monson and Packer were the three apostles that were first assigned to the group.

Archaea · 05-23-2007, 03:32 PM

Let's quote the history:

On June 8, 1971, exactly seven years before President Spencer W. Kimball received a revelation extending the priesthood to "all worthy males," modern Church history was made as Elder Gordon B. Hinckley, Elder Thomas S. Monson, and Elder Boyd K. Packer (then junior apostles) met with three Black Latter-day Saints—Ruffin Bridgeforth, Darius Gray, and Eugene Orr—to discuss how the Church might better support its members of African descent. These six men worked together weekly until The Genesis Group was established as an auxiliary unit of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on October 19, 1971, under the direction of President Joseph Fielding Smith.
The Genesis Group was established to meet the needs of Black members, many of whom were descendants of early pioneers, with the hope of reactivating those who had left the Church and of supporting new converts of African descent. The late Ruffin Bridgeforth served as president from 1971 until his death in 1997. Darius Gray, who served as a counselor to President Bridgeforth, succeeded him as president in 1997 and served until his release in 2003. Don Harwell received the calling to succeed him.
Seventy President Merrill J. Bateman is currently assigned as the presiding general authority over Genesis.
The Genesis Group meets on the first Sunday of each month at 7 p.m. in the meetinghouse at 6710 South 1300 East, Salt Lake City.

Other than the fact that Lee was president, it doesn't show any abiding interest but interest by "junior" apostles in meeting with some black members.

I find the evidence very unpersuasive that Lee was sensitive to the needs of black members.

McKay book does not paint a positive picture of Lee in many capacities. Remember the negative picture it painted of his attitude toward BYU Hawaii?

Permissively allowing somebody to befriend members is a long way from showing he wasn't racist, or didn't have racist sympathies. I have no idea about his beliefs on race, but the McKay book quote is disconcerting. And it came from a faithful member of the Church.

All-American · 05-23-2007, 03:47 PM

I've found that there are lots of racist statements coming from nearly every prominent church member who lived long enough. Racism just wasn't anything unusual before the 50's and 60's. One possible reason it lasted as long as it did in the church is that its policies are the product of its leaders, who are a product of earlier generations. One natural result of this is a naturally conservative tendency.

Because the question is being largely directed at me, I suppose I ought to respond. I don't condemn or criticize any of the church presidents. I don't believe they're perfect, and I believe that they made mistakes from time to time, but I also believe that they are good, just men deserving our respect. I fully expect to see Harold B. Lee hobnobbing with Joseph, Brigham, and LaVell in the Celestial Kingdom when all is said and done.

I also believe that the Lord has specific objectives for His church, and the man who is placed in the position of leadership is often particularly qualified to accomplish them. In order for the church to undergo the changes that it needed to make 1844-1877, it needed Brigham Young, and no other man would do. Likewise for Heber J. Grant, David O. McKay, Spencer W. Kimball, and Gordon B. Hinckley, who all had lengthier tenures at the head of the church.

Joseph died because his mission was complete. I suspect that the same goes for every other President of the church. For whatever reason, the Lord needed Spencer W. Kimball at the head of the church during those years, and not Harold B. Lee. I wonder if the policy of blacks and the priesthood was one of those reasons. I don't have anything to prove it, of course, and I had no intention of defaming President Lee or any other church leader.

MikeWaters · 05-23-2007, 03:57 PM

Bateman in charge of Genesis group? No comment.

Let's not be so quick to suggest that everyone in the 60s where racist. Many Jews took up the cause of civil rights and marched in the South, some giving their lives to do so.

I've not heard anything that suggests the church in anyway supported the Civil Rights movement. And there is much to suggest that it didn't support it.

Archaea · 05-23-2007, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Bateman in charge of Genesis group? No comment.

Let's not be so quick to suggest that everyone in the 60s where racist. Many Jews took up the cause of civil rights and marched in the South, some giving their lives to do so.

I've not heard anything that suggests the church in anyway supported the Civil Rights movement. And there is much to suggest that it didn't support it.

The Church leaders response to the Civil Rights movement was disappointing, in large part to the misinformation spread by ETB. Hugh B. Brown was a notable exception.

Being insular at that time harmed the Church by not being able to see beyond its borders.

BlueK · 05-23-2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Bateman in charge of Genesis group? No comment.

Let's not be so quick to suggest that everyone in the 60s where racist. Many Jews took up the cause of civil rights and marched in the South, some giving their lives to do so.

I've not heard anything that suggests the church in anyway supported the Civil Rights movement. And there is much to suggest that it didn't support it.

Merrill Bateman, IMO, is a little misunderstood by BYU fans. Was he an effective president of BYU? I guess there are many who might give examples as to why he wasn't. I'm not close enough to the situation to judge that. And I'm personally not a fan of what happened to the athletic program under his watch. He probably has some micromanaging tendencies in his leadership style. However, he was my stake president for many years while growing up in Provo and I feel like I know him better as a person than the average joe critic. I've also heard his stories about the establishment of the Genesis group as well as when the church sent him to Africa after 1978. It would be hard after hearing him speak about his experiences to even remotely conclude he's racist. He's had a long involvement in these issues in the church and he seems like the perfect member of the 70 to be connected to it now, IMO.

MikeWaters · 05-23-2007, 04:15 PM

I'm just not a fan of Merrill Bateman as BYU president.

First off, he should have never been selected. I'm opposed to the mixing of academia with priesthood. So I suppose in our culture, we shouldn't blame Bateman for accepting what probably felt like a calling.

He just plain wasn't qualified. Why would we expect an unqualified person to do a bangup job? We shouldn't.

But who am I? I'm a whacko that thinks the cost of tuition should be increased x5. So don't listen to me.

05-23-2007, 02:13 PM	#1
Tex Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,596	LDS group for blacks founded under direction of Harold B. Lee A kindler, gentler Tex notes: Just noticed that the Genesis Group mentioned in the article was founded by Hinckley, Monson, and Packer in 1971, under the direction of none other than Harold B. Lee. That would seem to undercut the idea, borne of the oft-cited "not while I'm prophet" quote, that Lee was a racist. Is it possible some of the folks who hypothesized such (even suggested that God shortened his tenure as a result) have been too hasty in their judgment of the man? http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/whatis.htm __________________ "Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young

05-23-2007, 02:27 PM	#2
myboynoah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!! Posts: 4,530	Well, I guess it showed he had a heart and was willing to reach out, which is not surprising considering he was the Prophet. It would have been much more impressive had he been the mouthpiece for change that his successor eventually became. I don't pretend to the know the heart of any of these men and suspect none of us do. I have a hard time throwing the "racist" label on them. They were products of their time and culture, as were we all that lived back then. I remember the Genesis Group coming to speak during a Sac Meeting when I was young. Oddly, I don't recall the event generating any buzz about lifting the priesthood ban. I think that is strange. Even stranger, I remember talking to a recent convert before my mission who talked of the difficulty he had with the priesthood ban. I couldn't understand his concerns. __________________ Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith.

05-23-2007, 03:15 PM	#3
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	I don't remember Lee being the facilitator of the Genesis Group, I sure thought Hinckley may have been. Nonetheless, it was an outreach group for AA members so they could feel connected, but it did not advocate extension of the priesthood, or full benefits of membership, so the existence of one does nothing to aid in the argument that President Lee did anything to extend the benefits of the priesthood to all worthy members. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

05-23-2007, 03:32 PM	#5
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Let's quote the history: On June 8, 1971, exactly seven years before President Spencer W. Kimball received a revelation extending the priesthood to "all worthy males," modern Church history was made as Elder Gordon B. Hinckley, Elder Thomas S. Monson, and Elder Boyd K. Packer (then junior apostles) met with three Black Latter-day Saints—Ruffin Bridgeforth, Darius Gray, and Eugene Orr—to discuss how the Church might better support its members of African descent. These six men worked together weekly until The Genesis Group was established as an auxiliary unit of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on October 19, 1971, under the direction of President Joseph Fielding Smith. The Genesis Group was established to meet the needs of Black members, many of whom were descendants of early pioneers, with the hope of reactivating those who had left the Church and of supporting new converts of African descent. The late Ruffin Bridgeforth served as president from 1971 until his death in 1997. Darius Gray, who served as a counselor to President Bridgeforth, succeeded him as president in 1997 and served until his release in 2003. Don Harwell received the calling to succeed him. Seventy President Merrill J. Bateman is currently assigned as the presiding general authority over Genesis. The Genesis Group meets on the first Sunday of each month at 7 p.m. in the meetinghouse at 6710 South 1300 East, Salt Lake City. Other than the fact that Lee was president, it doesn't show any abiding interest but interest by "junior" apostles in meeting with some black members. I find the evidence very unpersuasive that Lee was sensitive to the needs of black members. McKay book does not paint a positive picture of Lee in many capacities. Remember the negative picture it painted of his attitude toward BYU Hawaii? Permissively allowing somebody to befriend members is a long way from showing he wasn't racist, or didn't have racist sympathies. I have no idea about his beliefs on race, but the McKay book quote is disconcerting. And it came from a faithful member of the Church. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

05-23-2007, 03:47 PM	#6
All-American Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,420	I've found that there are lots of racist statements coming from nearly every prominent church member who lived long enough. Racism just wasn't anything unusual before the 50's and 60's. One possible reason it lasted as long as it did in the church is that its policies are the product of its leaders, who are a product of earlier generations. One natural result of this is a naturally conservative tendency. Because the question is being largely directed at me, I suppose I ought to respond. I don't condemn or criticize any of the church presidents. I don't believe they're perfect, and I believe that they made mistakes from time to time, but I also believe that they are good, just men deserving our respect. I fully expect to see Harold B. Lee hobnobbing with Joseph, Brigham, and LaVell in the Celestial Kingdom when all is said and done. I also believe that the Lord has specific objectives for His church, and the man who is placed in the position of leadership is often particularly qualified to accomplish them. In order for the church to undergo the changes that it needed to make 1844-1877, it needed Brigham Young, and no other man would do. Likewise for Heber J. Grant, David O. McKay, Spencer W. Kimball, and Gordon B. Hinckley, who all had lengthier tenures at the head of the church. Joseph died because his mission was complete. I suspect that the same goes for every other President of the church. For whatever reason, the Lord needed Spencer W. Kimball at the head of the church during those years, and not Harold B. Lee. I wonder if the policy of blacks and the priesthood was one of those reasons. I don't have anything to prove it, of course, and I had no intention of defaming President Lee or any other church leader. __________________ εν αρχη ην ο λογος

05-23-2007, 03:57 PM	#7
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Bateman in charge of Genesis group? No comment. Let's not be so quick to suggest that everyone in the 60s where racist. Many Jews took up the cause of civil rights and marched in the South, some giving their lives to do so. I've not heard anything that suggests the church in anyway supported the Civil Rights movement. And there is much to suggest that it didn't support it.

05-23-2007, 04:15 PM	#10
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I'm just not a fan of Merrill Bateman as BYU president. First off, he should have never been selected. I'm opposed to the mixing of academia with priesthood. So I suppose in our culture, we shouldn't blame Bateman for accepting what probably felt like a calling. He just plain wasn't qualified. Why would we expect an unqualified person to do a bangup job? We shouldn't. But who am I? I'm a whacko that thinks the cost of tuition should be increased x5. So don't listen to me.