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danimal · 07-28-2007, 01:24 AM

Just found out that a member of an old ward of ours embezzled nearly $3 million from his company and is about to be sentenced in federal court. During the years that he was defrauding his company, he was EQ pres, YM pres, and High Councilman. Seemed like a straight arrow sort of guy. Guess appearances are deceiving...

non sequitur · 07-28-2007, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danimal

Just found out that a member of an old ward of ours embezzled nearly $3 million from his company and is about to be sentenced in federal court. During the years that he was defrauding his company, he was EQ pres, YM pres, and High Councilman. Seemed like a straight arrow sort of guy. Guess appearances are deceiving...

But did he drink beer or coffee? If not, I'm sure he attended church each week with a clear conscience.

danimal · 07-28-2007, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by non sequitur

But did he drink beer or coffee? If not, I'm sure he attended church each week with a clear conscience.

That's funny as Marsupial and I were saying that he would probably never consider drinking coffee or doing other mundane sins. I guess if you're going to go out, go out big.

il Padrino Ute · 07-28-2007, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danimal

That's funny as Marsupial and I were saying that he would probably never consider drinking coffee or doing other mundane sins. I guess if you're going to go out, go out big.

Is he a homosexual? Prison affection may be easier to accept if he is.

Sorry, wrong thread.

SeattleUte · 07-30-2007, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danimal

Just found out that a member of an old ward of ours embezzled nearly $3 million from his company and is about to be sentenced in federal court. During the years that he was defrauding his company, he was EQ pres, YM pres, and High Councilman. Seemed like a straight arrow sort of guy. Guess appearances are deceiving...

I bet this guy decided there's no such thing as truth exept your own, and he made the money his own.

BYU71 · 07-30-2007, 01:29 PM

People with reponsible positions in the church do bad things. I don't know why we get so surprised. One reason of course is because it is so out of the ordinary. I guess another reason is some think once you obtain those positions you are a righteous person.

I find these things interesting and sad, but not shocking or surprising.

Of course I don't find honor code violations at BYU shocking or embarassing. I do find the outcries of "embarassment" over the BYU scandals to be hollow when I don't hear the same outcries of embarassment over things like this.

I wonder if anyone anywhere is calling for disbanding the EQ Pres. or High Councilmen programs.

DrumNFeather · 07-30-2007, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU71

People with reponsible positions in the church do bad things. I don't know why we get so surprised. One reason of course is because it is so out of the ordinary. I guess another reason is some think once you obtain those positions you are a righteous person.

I find these things interesting and sad, but not shocking or surprising.

Of course I don't find honor code violations at BYU shocking or embarassing. I do find the outcries of "embarassment" over the BYU scandals to be hollow when I don't hear the same outcries of embarassment over things like this.

I wonder if anyone anywhere is calling for disbanding the EQ Pres. or High Councilmen programs.

Perhaps the church needs to launch a new Barkleyesk commercial series featuring the 12 and other local and area authories saying..."I am not a role model" maybe this will put some member's hearts at ease while looking to find fault.

MikeWaters · 07-30-2007, 02:10 PM

IMO, it's probably rare to have a Bishop that is not in the upper quarter of income in his ward.

In my ward, I think incomes are low enough that a school teacher could conceivably be in the bottom of the upper quarter.

Hence, we have a school teacher in the Bishopric. And a traveling furniture rep. as Bishop.

My ward is crazy. Me as scoutmaster is evidence of that. All rules go by the wayside when there is a lack of warm bodies.

Archaea · 07-30-2007, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

IMO, it's probably rare to have a Bishop that is not in the upper quarter of income in his ward.

In my ward, I think incomes are low enough that a school teacher could conceivably be in the bottom of the upper quarter.

Hence, we have a school teacher in the Bishopric. And a traveling furniture rep. as Bishop.

My ward is crazy. Me as scoutmaster is evidence of that. All rules go by the wayside when there is a lack of warm bodies.

I think you're focusing upon the wrong factor.

The leadership positions need leaders. In society, leaders typically will be paid more than the average grunt worker.

Our ward is upper middle class, but not all of our bishops were top wage earners. Nonetheless, we usually have at least one person representing a lesser income group.

I've noticed these persons typically are called to leadership positions: CES, successful professionals, successful government employees or successful businessmen.

What do you expect, the person sitting on the welfare rolls to be the bishop? Before you can help others, you must have achieved some degreee of proficiency in your personal organization and behavior. That's not equivalent to righteousness, but it is equivalent to personal success.

MikeWaters · 07-30-2007, 02:28 PM

well look at me. I might be considered a successful professional at some point, but how many people have I managed?

Zero.

Do I have any inclination to manage people?

No.

Actually, from what I can tell, a Bishop does very little managing. Other than selecting managers who report to him.

Who follows up on all the auxiliaries? The counselors. Who follows up on everything else in the ward? The people who attend Ward Council.

A bishop has three main roles: 1) set the spiritual tone for the ward 2) be in tune with the Spirit to select people to fill leadership positions 3) spiritually counsel in private.

Really not much about that to me screams "lawyer" "business professional" "accountant" "mid-level management" "rich".

07-28-2007, 01:24 AM	#1
danimal Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Your mom's house Posts: 588	Wow Just found out that a member of an old ward of ours embezzled nearly $3 million from his company and is about to be sentenced in federal court. During the years that he was defrauding his company, he was EQ pres, YM pres, and High Councilman. Seemed like a straight arrow sort of guy. Guess appearances are deceiving... __________________ Tobias: You know, Lindsay, as a therapist, I have advised a number of couples to explore an open relationship where the couple remains emotionally committed, but free to explore extra-marital encounters. Lindsay: Well, did it work for those people? Tobias: No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but...but it might work for us.

07-30-2007, 01:29 PM	#6
BYU71 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,084	People with reponsible positions in the church do bad things. I don't know why we get so surprised. One reason of course is because it is so out of the ordinary. I guess another reason is some think once you obtain those positions you are a righteous person. I find these things interesting and sad, but not shocking or surprising. Of course I don't find honor code violations at BYU shocking or embarassing. I do find the outcries of "embarassment" over the BYU scandals to be hollow when I don't hear the same outcries of embarassment over things like this. I wonder if anyone anywhere is calling for disbanding the EQ Pres. or High Councilmen programs.

07-30-2007, 02:10 PM	#8
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	IMO, it's probably rare to have a Bishop that is not in the upper quarter of income in his ward. In my ward, I think incomes are low enough that a school teacher could conceivably be in the bottom of the upper quarter. Hence, we have a school teacher in the Bishopric. And a traveling furniture rep. as Bishop. My ward is crazy. Me as scoutmaster is evidence of that. All rules go by the wayside when there is a lack of warm bodies.

07-30-2007, 02:28 PM	#10
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	well look at me. I might be considered a successful professional at some point, but how many people have I managed? Zero. Do I have any inclination to manage people? No. Actually, from what I can tell, a Bishop does very little managing. Other than selecting managers who report to him. Who follows up on all the auxiliaries? The counselors. Who follows up on everything else in the ward? The people who attend Ward Council. A bishop has three main roles: 1) set the spiritual tone for the ward 2) be in tune with the Spirit to select people to fill leadership positions 3) spiritually counsel in private. Really not much about that to me screams "lawyer" "business professional" "accountant" "mid-level management" "rich".