A MORE interesting discussion about FLDS

[Spaz]

To me, a far more interesting debate brought up by the FLDS situation is the separation of abuse from beliefs.

To help explain, I'll give a few examples of situations...


Case A: A child is taught from the time she's born that plural marriage is the way to go. When she turns 13, she's told by her parents to marry an old fugly dude in his fifties. Believing it's God's will, she does so willingly, promptly becoming pregnant.

Case B: Same as above, except that the girl decides she doesn't want to marry the fugly dude, and objects. She is forced to marry him, promptly becoming pregnant.

Case C: Same as case A, but this girl is seventeen when married.

Case D: Same as case B, except the girl is seventeen when married.



To me, cases B & D obviously represent sexual abuse. Case C obviously does not.

I'm undecided on Case A.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by Spaz

To me, a far more interesting debate brought up by the FLDS situation is the separation of abuse from beliefs.

To help explain, I'll give a few examples of situations...


Case A: A child is taught from the time she's born that plural marriage is the way to go. When she turns 13, she's told by her parents to marry an old fugly dude in his fifties. Believing it's God's will, she does so willingly, promptly becoming pregnant.

Case B: Same as above, except that the girl decides she doesn't want to marry the fugly dude, and objects. She is forced to marry him, promptly becoming pregnant.

Case C: Same as case A, but this girl is seventeen when married.

Case D: Same as case B, except the girl is seventeen when married.



To me, cases B & D obviously represent sexual abuse. Case C obviously does not.

I'm undecided on Case A.

defining 'forced'. Talked into or physicially forced.

[BYU71]

I would say, meaning it is an opinion, that if you have been indoctrinated into a belief system that tells you everything a man says comes from God, you in essence have been forced.

Your reality of what is and isn't has been distorted.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I would say, meaning it is an opinion, that if you have been indoctrinated into a belief system that tells you everything a man says comes from God, you in essence have been forced.

Your reality of what is and isn't has been distorted.

I agree, to an extent. Taking this argument at face value and applying it to myself, all mormons have been 'forced' to not smoke. And yet, I don't feel as though that's the case.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by Spaz

I agree, to an extent. Taking this argument at face value and applying it to myself, all mormons have been 'forced' to not smoke. And yet, I don't feel as though that's the case.

This is where this gets so tricky. I find the FLDS to be misguided and their practices abhorrent and abusive.

But there are people in this world who think me teaching my children anything not grounded in rational "fact" is abhorrent. So where do you draw the line?

Clearly those are two extremes but it is indeed a slippery slope ...

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Spaz

I agree, to an extent. Taking this argument at face value and applying it to myself, all mormons have been 'forced' to not smoke. And yet, I don't feel as though that's the case.

Many, many mormons grow up in an environment that allows for contemplating what the brethern say and making up their own minds. There are some I believe who welcome the coercive culture, but I think it only exists amongst a few in the church.

Unfortunately for the FLDS, it is a lot if not that vast majority that have fallen into the "anything said comes from God" belief.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Many, many mormons grow up in an environment that allows for contemplating what the brethern say and making up their own minds. There are some I believe who welcome the coercive culture, but I think it only exists amongst a few in the church.

Unfortunately for the FLDS, it is a lot if not that vast majority that have fallen into the "anything said comes from God" belief.

That would, certainly, make a difference. I'm not familiar enough with the FLDS to know this as fact...

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I would say, meaning it is an opinion, that if you have been indoctrinated into a belief system that tells you everything a man says comes from God, you in essence have been forced.

Are Mormon children forced to go on missions, marry in the temple, obey the WoW, etc.? By your definition I'd say yes.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

Are Mormon children forced to go on missions, marry in the temple, obey the WoW, etc.? By your definition I'd say yes.

There are mormon children forced to go on missions, marry in the temple and obey the WOW. I would say they are by far the minority. The belief that you have to do everything spoken by the Prophet or your life is doomed is not a widely held by members of the church, IMHO.

It is one thing society should recognize as a major diff. between us and the FLDS.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by BYU71

There are mormon children forced to go on missions, marry in the temple and obey the WOW. I would say they are by far the minority. The belief that you have to do everything spoken by the Prophet or your life is doomed is not a widely held by members of the church, IMHO.

It is one thing society should recognize as a major diff. between us and the FLDS.

So then I guess the real question is what amounts to "indoctrination" vs. "teaching" and where does agency fit in. Not an easy question to answer.