Hillary and Sexism - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

myboynoah · 07-01-2008, 11:51 AM

I keep hearing that women who supported Hillary are upset about the overt sexism shown during the Dem primary campaign, by the media and the Obama campaign. To be honest, I don't know what they are talking about. Can someone explain this for me? Is it more of a general feeling of not being taken seriously? Or are there specific instances to which they point, that if taken together, show a trend? Or a combination of both?

BarbaraGordon · 07-01-2008, 03:26 PM

This is a complex issue, with some legitimate points, but also a bit of exaggeration.

1. It is true that Hillary detractors tended to criticize Hillary using terms and phrases that would never be used to describe a man. She was hormonal, menopausal, a witch, a bitch, a lezbo, a Medusa, a Harpy, and who knows what else. However, for the most part this was not done on what I would consider mainstream less-biased media. This was done primarily on gray-news sources.

2. One of their primary complaints is that Hillary is referred to by her first name while her opponents were referred to by title (Senator/Governor/Representative) and last name. They argue that this is a diminutive and connotes less respect for her than for her colleagues. Well, that's sort of true, but we all know that Hillary was not called Hillary out of any malice or agenda, she was called Hillary because the name Clinton is associated with her husband. It was used for clarification.

3. But the real issue is bigger and more complex.

You have to remember who these women are. They're older, they're professional, and they've spent decades trying to balance work and family...trying to succeed in a man's workplace and watching as they're passed over for promotions because they couldn't put in the 60 hour weeks to get ahead.

They watched over and over again as the young male MBA was able to move ahead in the office, while the women settled for a longevity award. They watched as their husbands cheated with women half their age, then left for someone younger and cuter. They're tired of the struggle. They're bitter. They were desperately hoping to see one of their own make it to the top just to prove it could be done.

And now they watch as their beloved Hillary lives out on the world's biggest stage the tragedy of their own lives for all the world to see.

It's not really sexism. No one really took Hillary down because of her gender. No one in the party really said, "oh, look at this nice black man. Let's give him the nomination instead." But still, what happened tapped into all their fears about how the world works. It tapped into all their pent-up resentment and anger.

I think they're reading too much into it to try to suggest that sexism was a deliberate factor in the outcome of the nomination. But it is sad for all the women for whom Hillary was the champion of a generation of women who worked so hard to accomplish so much.

I'm no hillary fan, not by a long shot, but I when she finally conceded I actually cried for her and for all the women she represents. It's a difficult thing for a man to understand.

Sorry, MBN, if I got a little carried away with that response, but hopefully it helps shed a little light on what's going on with those supporters.

myboynoah · 07-01-2008, 04:08 PM

Thanks BatGirl. That pretty much confirms what I was thinking

I actually came away from the process liking and respecting her much more than I did before. I don't agree with much of her politics, but she really impressed me. I certainly think she would make a better president than Obama.

BarbaraGordon · 07-01-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myboynoah

Thanks BatGirl. That pretty much confirms what I was thinking

I actually came away from the process liking and respecting her much more than I did before. I don't agree with much of her politics, but she really impressed me. I certainly think she would make a better president than Obama.

I was really REALLY impressed with her final "concession" delivery. I came away thinking, "holy cow...where was this person the last twelve months?" If she had been that genuine the whole time she probably would have walked away with the nomination.

RedHeadGal · 07-02-2008, 06:52 PM

It's like coming to this board and seeing how sexist it is. Most of you probably don't see it. But that doesn't mean it's not there. And lord knows the discussion about homophobic comments is vented seemingly on a daily basis. . .

It's a little hard for me to believe that a sincere person couldn't see instances of sexism in how she was treated in her campaign.

RedHeadGal · 07-02-2008, 06:55 PM

e.g.:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

Let me put it to you plainly, I would cut off my dick and give it to Utestar before I'd let that whore touch it.

Looking at her and her hideously ugly fat legs, together with ugly mug and fat butt, would make willy go into hibernation for a millennium.

She is the most vile creature I could ever imagine. If it were between Stalin and Hillary, I'd vote for Stalin and hope to be in his inner circle.

MikeWaters · 07-02-2008, 07:05 PM

Hillary might have had a chance had she not been associated with slimy Bill.

But then again, she never would have been senator of New York if not for Bill.

BarbaraGordon · 07-02-2008, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

It's like coming to this board and seeing how sexist it is. Most of you probably don't see it. But that doesn't mean it's not there. And lord knows the discussion about homophobic comments is vented seemingly on a daily basis. . .

It's a little hard for me to believe that a sincere person couldn't see instances of sexism in how she was treated in her campaign.

Right. But the example you cite is a perfect one because the nasty misogynist rhetoric (no offense, Arch) surrounding her campaign was primarily casual and user-generated. It's a bit of a stretch for the Hillary supporters to claim that the legitimate media or the party itself was actually using sexism against Hillary; or that sexism played a role in any organized coherent sense. I saw very few examples of that kind of thing from the real media, and I followed the race closely. And I think that's what Noah was asking about.

That said, much of the tone and content of the anti-Hillary discourse was embarrassing and inexcusable in its use of diction and imagery that's clearly intended to belittle and subjugate women in general, and that woman in particular.

(Wow! I almost sound like a feminist!)

YOhio · 07-02-2008, 07:24 PM

Well ladies. Don't blame me. I voted for her.

myboynoah · 07-02-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOhio

Well ladies. Don't blame me. I voted for her.

What were you, Captain or Major in Operation Chaos? Oh the stories you will tell the Grandkids.

07-01-2008, 11:51 AM	#1
myboynoah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!! Posts: 4,530	Hillary and Sexism I keep hearing that women who supported Hillary are upset about the overt sexism shown during the Dem primary campaign, by the media and the Obama campaign. To be honest, I don't know what they are talking about. Can someone explain this for me? Is it more of a general feeling of not being taken seriously? Or are there specific instances to which they point, that if taken together, show a trend? Or a combination of both? __________________ Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith.

07-01-2008, 04:08 PM	#3
myboynoah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!! Posts: 4,530	Thanks BatGirl. That pretty much confirms what I was thinking I actually came away from the process liking and respecting her much more than I did before. I don't agree with much of her politics, but she really impressed me. I certainly think she would make a better president than Obama. __________________ Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith.

07-01-2008, 03:26 PM	#2
BarbaraGordon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gotham City Posts: 7,157	This is a complex issue, with some legitimate points, but also a bit of exaggeration. 1. It is true that Hillary detractors tended to criticize Hillary using terms and phrases that would never be used to describe a man. She was hormonal, menopausal, a witch, a bitch, a lezbo, a Medusa, a Harpy, and who knows what else. However, for the most part this was not done on what I would consider mainstream less-biased media. This was done primarily on gray-news sources. 2. One of their primary complaints is that Hillary is referred to by her first name while her opponents were referred to by title (Senator/Governor/Representative) and last name. They argue that this is a diminutive and connotes less respect for her than for her colleagues. Well, that's sort of true, but we all know that Hillary was not called Hillary out of any malice or agenda, she was called Hillary because the name Clinton is associated with her husband. It was used for clarification. 3. But the real issue is bigger and more complex. You have to remember who these women are. They're older, they're professional, and they've spent decades trying to balance work and family...trying to succeed in a man's workplace and watching as they're passed over for promotions because they couldn't put in the 60 hour weeks to get ahead. They watched over and over again as the young male MBA was able to move ahead in the office, while the women settled for a longevity award. They watched as their husbands cheated with women half their age, then left for someone younger and cuter. They're tired of the struggle. They're bitter. They were desperately hoping to see one of their own make it to the top just to prove it could be done. And now they watch as their beloved Hillary lives out on the world's biggest stage the tragedy of their own lives for all the world to see. It's not really sexism. No one really took Hillary down because of her gender. No one in the party really said, "oh, look at this nice black man. Let's give him the nomination instead." But still, what happened tapped into all their fears about how the world works. It tapped into all their pent-up resentment and anger. I think they're reading too much into it to try to suggest that sexism was a deliberate factor in the outcome of the nomination. But it is sad for all the women for whom Hillary was the champion of a generation of women who worked so hard to accomplish so much. I'm no hillary fan, not by a long shot, but I when she finally conceded I actually cried for her and for all the women she represents. It's a difficult thing for a man to understand. Sorry, MBN, if I got a little carried away with that response, but hopefully it helps shed a little light on what's going on with those supporters.

07-02-2008, 06:52 PM	#5
RedHeadGal Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: DC Posts: 995	It's like coming to this board and seeing how sexist it is. Most of you probably don't see it. But that doesn't mean it's not there. And lord knows the discussion about homophobic comments is vented seemingly on a daily basis. . . It's a little hard for me to believe that a sincere person couldn't see instances of sexism in how she was treated in her campaign.

07-02-2008, 07:05 PM	#7
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Hillary might have had a chance had she not been associated with slimy Bill. But then again, she never would have been senator of New York if not for Bill.

07-02-2008, 07:24 PM	#9
YOhio AKA SeattleNewt Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 7,055	Well ladies. Don't blame me. I voted for her.