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#1 |
Assistant to the Regional Manager
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Orgasmatron
Posts: 24,338
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Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα |
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#2 | |
Charon
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the heart of darkness (Provo)
Posts: 9,564
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Thanks for posting that. I think the Des News has come a long way. Not too many years ago, an in-depth article on a topic such as that would have been unthinkable.
Also, I found this quote quite interesting: Quote:
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"... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr. |
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#3 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Happy Valley, PA
Posts: 1,866
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I find it pretty interesting how many of these objections to Beck's talk are rooted in the individual's perceived differences with a generalized statement. It's a complicated issue, to be sure, and I'll never be a mother or deal directly with the pressures of life, career, motherhood, and church (although as a husband and a father I deal indirectly with them all the time). But it's okay to have individual experiences that deviate from a generalized ideal (at least, I think so). I imagine the tension emerges in that gray area where a bunch of individuals becomes anything like a perceived collective experience or identity. Essentially, everyone must be self-referential here, and most people want the actions that they undertook in good conscience ratified by authority. Everyone seems to want the guy or gal in charge to back them up, even if their experience in reality is quite different from the norm. It's ultimately a quite selfish and self-centered approach. I can't see how this will be resolved.
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I hope for nothing. I fear nothing. I am free. - Epitaph of Nikos Kazantzakis (1883-1957) |
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: With Surfah
Posts: 329
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I think if I would have heard this talk while it was happening (I only learned about it in the crazy aftermath), I still would have been confused. Maybe not totally offended, but certainly thoughtful, and maybe even saddened. I joined the Church when I was 17, and ended up getting pregnant, having, and keeping my daughter at 22. I attended my local singles ward (even with the obvious Scarlet Letter across my growing belly). And was actively involved in church and the repentance process - but still struggling to find my place in the "map of motherhood" later outlined by Sister Beck. I have to admit, although my ward was more than understanding and loving (which I feel is a direct result of geography - i.e. McMinnville, OR vs. Provo, UT) now that I am married in the temple and Surfah and I were both sealed to OUR daughter on that day, I do feel more accepted just because I remedied my situation with the "right" medicine: marriage/stay-at-home mom serum. I often wonder if I was still a working single mother active in the church how I would feel about my role, or lack thereof. I feel for the women in this place- those who don't fit perfectly into the "map of motherhood", because I have been there.
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I am a philosophical Goldilocks, always looking for something neither too big nor too small, neither too hot nor too cold, something jussssst right. I'll send you a card from purgatory. - PaloAltoCougar |
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#5 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: With Surfah
Posts: 329
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And I think I would have felt the same if Monson or Hinckley had given that talk. It's important to address paths that stray from the formula, and I think in this case those paths weren't focused on enough.
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I am a philosophical Goldilocks, always looking for something neither too big nor too small, neither too hot nor too cold, something jussssst right. I'll send you a card from purgatory. - PaloAltoCougar |
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#6 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,589
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#7 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Between Iraq and a hard place
Posts: 7,569
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#8 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,326
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Ohbama - The Original Bridge to Nowhere |
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#9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,589
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Pray tell...what is the rest of the story? I didn't realize you, Grapevine, and Toscano were so tight...
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#10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 580
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Come on, exUte, give us the rest of the story about the Toscanos. I went to law school with Paul and thought I knew quite a bit about them, but I'm always open for more insight. Please provide it.
I didn't always agree with Paul, but he was always insightful and interesting. His "Confessions of a Would-be Zone Leader" that was published in the New Era while I was on my mission was really good. And I'll always be grateful to Paul for something he said at the end of a particularly boring class discussion in law school. He raised his hand and, when called upon, said "Mr. _________, if this discussion is a good example of the Socratic Method I have nothing but boundless sympathy for the men of ancient Athens." |
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