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11-11-2005, 07:55 PM | #1 |
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found some interesting quotes by brigham young....
B. BRIGHAM YOUNG: "I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken the influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not." (Discourses of Brigham Young, John A Widtsoe, pg. 136).
"The First Presidency have a right of great influence over this people; and if we should get out of the way and lead this people to destruction, what a pity it would be! How can you know whether we lead you correctly or not? Can you know by any other power than that of the Holy Ghost? I have uniformly exhorted the people to obtain this living witness, each for themselves; then no man on earth can lead them astray." (Discourses of Brigham Young, pg. 137). so much for blind obedience, and following the prophet regardless what they say. |
11-11-2005, 08:04 PM | #2 |
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Don't you know Fusnik ...
... we are to "follow the prophet, he knows the way". Brigham is not the prophet anymore, so forget about what he said. I say that tongue in cheek, but what BY said is dead on, IMO, to what we face today. So many of the members say things like "we need a prophet to tell us what to do ..." etc. I cringe when I hear this. No! We need to be prophets unto ourselves and our family. The prophet is to guide the church as a whole, but you have just as much right, and more, to guide yourself under the direction of the HG. No man has superior right over you than you yourself, whether the man is Gordon B. Hinkley, or anyone else. You are responsible for you. If you rest on your ass with the fluffy idea that the prophet will tell you when you really need to do this or that, then, I believe, you will be in a world of hurt. Men (ALL MEN) are fallible. It is up to you to make absolutely sure you are being led by the HG. It is not for you to leave it for another MAN to do it for you. BY was right, the leaders can lead people astray. They are human, they are capable of anything.
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06-28-2006, 06:59 AM | #3 | |
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Quote:
The second issue, and apparently where I part company with many around here, is that the idea of obtaining our own witnesses, particularly since the prophet and other church leaders are imperfect, is stretched into this idea that what the Prophet says carries no particular wieght, is frequently wrong, and that we are situated just as well to know what we ought to do or not do as he is. While I agree that we are given only very general guidance on most things and that it is up to us to figure out particular applications of principles to situations, 99.99% of the time the right answer is to follow the counsel of the prophet. I certainly agree that exceptions always exist to the general principle (the proclamation on familes says this specficially), I just cringe at the idea some seem to have adopted that the prophet's advice is for the church generally and not for us individually, as though the church and the members were two different things. P.S. I have also concluded that most who are advancing the view I am talking about are doing so only because, or primarily because, they need to to justify their opposition to the church's view on gay marriage. I believe this is a case of making the argument fit the facts for most.
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The Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go. -Galileo Last edited by UtahDan; 06-28-2006 at 07:02 AM. |
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06-28-2006, 02:32 PM | #4 | |
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Great post. I would argue that almost anytime people push the view you justified, it's because they are trying to fit their opinion into what is correct or looking for justification for some behavior or opinion. Rather than change to be the way the Lord would have them be, they would brush it off as merely the ramblings of a confused old man. They expect to have an explanation for everything, and to understand everything. They forget that the Lord has never said that what He says or does will be PC, nor that He will explain himself to us everytime He does something. |
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11-11-2005, 08:23 PM | #5 |
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Cool sentiments.
IMHO, religion, even the *true religion*, exists for one purpose: to help humans develop their individual relationships to God and reach personal exaltation. But it's a *personal* exaltation. O
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11-11-2005, 09:11 PM | #6 |
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Interesting.
There is a lengthy thread on another message board forum that I frequent, the topic being is it okay to disobey something President Packer says. The thread has shown there are a lot of people who believe everything that comes out of the mouth of the brethren is doctrinal. Note that in 1978, Elder Bruce R. McConkie gave a devotional address and said the blacks would never receive the priesthood. It is apparent that many of the brethren's talks are their opinions, speaking to us as a wise grandfather who has been around the world. A person should not use their public addresses as a Cliffs Notes substitute for having a personal relationship with the holy spirit. |
11-11-2005, 09:24 PM | #7 |
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This seems to approach some of the underlying themes of the DoM book and recognizing the foibles of our leaders, their disagreements on issues, especially the topic of blacks and the priesthood, etc. As I was following President Hinckley's challenge to read the Book of Mormon (per BY, should I not be adhering to his challenge? :wink I got to Samuel in Helaman. Then I remembered when Christ came and asked why Samuel's story had not been recorded in the scriptures and I see that as a parallel to my first sentence addressing human foibles, race relations, and the words of BRM.
So basically, it didn't just happen in the 20th century. |
11-11-2005, 10:13 PM | #8 | |
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A simple look into very basic church history should put an end to that debate. |
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06-27-2006, 10:27 PM | #9 | |
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06-27-2006, 10:33 PM | #10 |
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Where were you guys for this thread?
http://cougarguard.com/forum/showpos...40&postcount=1 I was beginning to feel a bit alone in my belief! |
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