Intervention show--gay LDS guy - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

jay santos · 06-03-2008, 02:26 PM

Interesting episode of Intervention last night, apparently a rerun from a couple years ago. Troy, a straight A student from Idaho Falls. Went to BYU, discovered he was gay. Left BYU for USC. Got heavy into acting out in the gay lifestyle and in drugs. He had sex with so many guys he had no idea how many it was. Said he had 20 in one night. Would stay on a meth high for week at a time. Never used protection. Also implied his actions were very typical for the gay community. Ended up taking an HIV test in treatment that was positive. Very very sad story. Here's a summary from an Idaho Falls paper.

http://idahofallz.com/2006/01/12/bon...rvention-show/

A few thoughts.

1. He showed the most emotion of the entire show when he said it was really really hard to realize you're gay as a Mormon. I believe we can definitely do better as a church to give comfort and hope to gay members.

2. Butterfly Effect principle. Hard to believe a deep concept can come out of anything related to Ashton Kutcher, but this is deep. I dare say you put any of the brethren in that kid's shoes: father dead at age two, overbearing mom, molested by male and female at young age, raised in Idaho, inclination to dancing, introduction to drugs and gay lifestyle at right/wrong time, and you get this kid. You don't get a member of the 12, that's for sure. You put this kid from Intervention in the upraising one of the 12 had, and maybe you get an apostle. How does this principle relate to our obsession on works/worthiness/church discipline/etc.?

3. I have compassion for gay people. I want to trust them and take them at face value when they speak of gay rights and how they want to be viewed in society. However, there seems to be a real darkness about the gay lifestyle, promiscuous sex, drugs, acting out of childhood pain, dangerous risky sex, multiple meaningless partners. Part of me wants to be tolerant and acknowledge gay lifestyle as legitimate and be happy for them finding joy and happiness however they want to find it. Part of me wants to hold on to the traditional Christian view that homosexuality is an abomination and scourge, which we should try to fight against as if it's a war for the souls of those who struggle with that sin, because it's the LOVING thing to do, because these people clearly are not happy and leaving the lifestyle is a step towards recovery and happiness.

MikeWaters · 06-03-2008, 02:28 PM

FYI, as soon as you say "gay lifestyle" you are considered a bigot by gays.

It's like saying "coloreds" when talking about blacks.

jay santos · 06-03-2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

FYI, as soon as you say "gay lifestyle" you are considered a bigot by gays.

It's like saying "coloreds" when talking about blacks.

I'm aware I'm probably not PC. I'm evolving. I'll try to do better. But I think people are smart enough to know the true racism/bigotry is in the maliciousness of one's intent not in the language.

MikeWaters · 06-03-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

I'm aware I'm probably not PC. I'm evolving. I'll try to do better. But I think people are smart enough to know the true racism/bigotry is in the maliciousness of one's intent not in the language.

language always betrays what's on the inside. when you say "gay lifestyle" you are a making a sweeping generalization that offends many gays. They will say "there is no 'gay lifestyle.' There are all kinds of gays. Is there a 'straight lifestyle'?"

The phrase 'gay lifestyle' is used by right-wing conservatives and evangelicals to condemn gays. So it's a very loaded phrase.

jay santos · 06-03-2008, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

language always betrays what's on the inside.

I agree with this. In this case, I would say language betrays my ignorance or inexperience on the explosiveness of the issue and that word not any malice. I would feel pretty comfortable talking with a gay person on this subject without him thinking I was a jerk bigot.

MikeWaters · 06-03-2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

I agree with this. In this case, I would say language betrays my ignorance or inexperience on the explosiveness of the issue and that word not any malice. I would feel pretty comfortable talking with a gay person on this subject without him thinking I was a jerk bigot.

Well, I have been corrected on my use of the phrase "gay lifestyle" so that's why I know about it.

Tex · 06-03-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Well, I have been corrected on my use of the phrase "gay lifestyle" so that's why I know about it.

One of the PR problems the gay community faces is its own radical wing. It's not surprising to me that folks associate "gay lifestyle" with the behavior santos described, when that is the common public face associated with it.

Militant gays do not trot out the successful "life partner" pair of two men or two women living in suburbia with three well-adjusted children as the face of their "lifestyle." And it's not like I'm interested in going out of my way to figure out what terms gays find offensive and what they don't.

Trying to be PC is a fulltime job, and not one that I get paid for.

MikeWaters · 06-03-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

One of the PR problems the gay community faces is its own radical wing. It's not surprising to me that folks associate "gay lifestyle" with the behavior santos described, when that is the common public face associated with it.

Militant gays do not trot out the successful "life partner" pair of two men or two women living in suburbia with three well-adjusted children as the face of their "lifestyle." And it's not like I'm interested in going out of my way to figure out what terms gays find offensive and what they don't.

Trying to be PC is a fulltime job, and not one that I get paid for.

ok cracker.

BYU71 · 06-03-2008, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

One of the PR problems the gay community faces is its own radical wing. It's not surprising to me that folks associate "gay lifestyle" with the behavior santos described, when that is the common public face associated with it.

Militant gays do not trot out the successful "life partner" pair of two men or two women living in suburbia with three well-adjusted children as the face of their "lifestyle." And it's not like I'm interested in going out of my way to figure out what terms gays find offensive and what they don't.

Trying to be PC is a fulltime job, and not one that I get paid for.

I agree with Tex.

jay santos · 06-03-2008, 03:04 PM

A critical factor in this, IMHO, and maybe the most important factor is how representative this kid Troy's gay experience is of the entire gay community.

From the data points I've collected through life experience: media, literature, a few gay people I've known personally, pop culture, this seems to be representative of a very large aspect of the gay community.

If it is, then it seems very possible that the answer is to treat it like a disease (drug addiction, bulimia, alcoholism, sex addiction, whatever) and help people recover from it, not encourage them in their right to legitimize and mainstream it.

06-03-2008, 02:26 PM	#1
jay santos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,177	Intervention show--gay LDS guy Interesting episode of Intervention last night, apparently a rerun from a couple years ago. Troy, a straight A student from Idaho Falls. Went to BYU, discovered he was gay. Left BYU for USC. Got heavy into acting out in the gay lifestyle and in drugs. He had sex with so many guys he had no idea how many it was. Said he had 20 in one night. Would stay on a meth high for week at a time. Never used protection. Also implied his actions were very typical for the gay community. Ended up taking an HIV test in treatment that was positive. Very very sad story. Here's a summary from an Idaho Falls paper. http://idahofallz.com/2006/01/12/bon...rvention-show/ A few thoughts. 1. He showed the most emotion of the entire show when he said it was really really hard to realize you're gay as a Mormon. I believe we can definitely do better as a church to give comfort and hope to gay members. 2. Butterfly Effect principle. Hard to believe a deep concept can come out of anything related to Ashton Kutcher, but this is deep. I dare say you put any of the brethren in that kid's shoes: father dead at age two, overbearing mom, molested by male and female at young age, raised in Idaho, inclination to dancing, introduction to drugs and gay lifestyle at right/wrong time, and you get this kid. You don't get a member of the 12, that's for sure. You put this kid from Intervention in the upraising one of the 12 had, and maybe you get an apostle. How does this principle relate to our obsession on works/worthiness/church discipline/etc.? 3. I have compassion for gay people. I want to trust them and take them at face value when they speak of gay rights and how they want to be viewed in society. However, there seems to be a real darkness about the gay lifestyle, promiscuous sex, drugs, acting out of childhood pain, dangerous risky sex, multiple meaningless partners. Part of me wants to be tolerant and acknowledge gay lifestyle as legitimate and be happy for them finding joy and happiness however they want to find it. Part of me wants to hold on to the traditional Christian view that homosexuality is an abomination and scourge, which we should try to fight against as if it's a war for the souls of those who struggle with that sin, because it's the LOVING thing to do, because these people clearly are not happy and leaving the lifestyle is a step towards recovery and happiness.

06-03-2008, 02:28 PM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	FYI, as soon as you say "gay lifestyle" you are considered a bigot by gays. It's like saying "coloreds" when talking about blacks.

06-03-2008, 03:04 PM	#10
jay santos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,177	A critical factor in this, IMHO, and maybe the most important factor is how representative this kid Troy's gay experience is of the entire gay community. From the data points I've collected through life experience: media, literature, a few gay people I've known personally, pop culture, this seems to be representative of a very large aspect of the gay community. If it is, then it seems very possible that the answer is to treat it like a disease (drug addiction, bulimia, alcoholism, sex addiction, whatever) and help people recover from it, not encourage them in their right to legitimize and mainstream it.