Question: Spirituality

[Archaea]

What is it? This is more for FM.

When you're asking for spirituality, what are you looking for?

I'm not certain what you mean by spiritual experiences, unless you simply mean religious, emotional experience with a religious overtone.

Discussion by its very nature tends to be analytical, and emotion, of which spiritual experiences play a part, the soul's manner of expressing its internal assimilation of external stimuli. Actually, I suppose discussion in the form of relationships can tend to be one of sharing and making one feel accepted, but on a guy dominated board, that characteristic is not likely to be prevalent.

Perhaps what you're stating is that manner in which we make heads or tails out of a relating of a spiritual experience is to dissect it to a point where you don't recognize it from the beginning. That may be true from time to time.

The reason I ask is, I have deeply moving experiences at unusual times in unusual places. My last visit to the USS Arizona, was both haunting and moving, to a point of tears. Is that what you want, or do you only want religious based emotion?

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

When you're asking for spirituality, what are you looking for?

Situations in which you felt the Spirit. And in my experience, this has nothing to do with whether you were at church or not. In fact, your experience at the Arizona may very well qualify ... I don't know if it was spiritual or just emotional because I'm not you.

Some of the most powerful spiritual experiences I have had in my life have been to do things that are completely illogical, making no sense whatsoever to my puny mind. But by exercising faith and doing it anyway, I have been blessed for it.

My point is this. I believer there are spiritual things that CANNOT be explained intellectually, no matter how hard you try. That belief is not shared by all here and it seems to be a "vocal minority".

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

Situations in which you felt the Spirit. And in my experience, this has nothing to do with whether you were at church or not. In fact, your experience at the Arizona may very well qualify ... I don't know if it was spiritual or just emotional because I'm not you.

Some of the most powerful spiritual experiences I have had in my life have been to do things that are completely illogical, making no sense whatsoever to my puny mind. But by exercising faith and doing it anyway, I have been blessed for it.

My point is this. I believer there are spiritual things that CANNOT be explained intellectually, no matter how hard you try. That belief is not shared by all here and it seems to be a "vocal minority".

When I flew to Russia on my mission, there was a 50 y.o. Russian lady on the plane who was very interested in Mormonism. A prominent German Mormon was on the plane with me, and he spoke Russian well, so he told her all about the Book of Mormon. Then he told me to be sure that I got her phone number to set up discussions. She got off the plane so quickly that I didn't catch her. I was really upset that I failed to do my duty as a missionary.

A few months later, I was at the hospital with a companion who was having an ingrown toenail removed. On the way out of the hospital, who should walk into the hospital but that very same woman. In a city of 1.5 million people, God had given me a second chance. But I didn't get her phone number that time either.

A few months after that, I bumped into the same lady at the ballet. This time I got her phone number, and the discussions were set up. I was convinced that the repeated opportunities to contact this woman in a city of 1.5 million were God's will in action.

Then I came home from my mission. I went on a trip to Houston (pop. 2 million), and I went to the mall with my parents. Low and behold, who should I bump into but one of my best childhood friends who was living in Houston. What are the chances of that? I don't know what the chances are. But since I have returned from my mission, I have noticed that I sometimes bump into familiar people even in very large cities, so the chances obviously aren't as slim as I thought. At that point, I no longer believed that God helped me to bump into people.

Then I thought back on my mission, and I remembered a goofy Russian guy with a weird hat who I street-contacted once. He started yelling at me because I was American and my country was "killing his brothers in Serbia." In retrospect, it occurred to me that I had seen that dude all over town--like 10 times--in completely different parts of this giant city. There is no freaking way God was involved with that one. The dude almost decked me when he found out I was an American.

Thus, I no longer believe that God makes chance meetings possible.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MudphudCoug

When I flew to Russia on my mission, there was a 50 y.o. Russian lady on the plane who was very interested in Mormonism. A prominent German Mormon was on the plane with me, and he spoke Russian well, so he told her all about the Book of Mormon. Then he told me to be sure that I got her phone number to set up discussions. She got off the plane so quickly that I didn't catch her. I was really upset that I failed to do my duty as a missionary.

A few months later, I was at the hospital with a companion who was having an ingrown toenail removed. On the way out of the hospital, who should walk into the hospital but that very same woman. In a city of 1.5 million people, God had given me a second chance. But I didn't get her phone number that time either.

A few months after that, I bumped into the same lady at the ballet. This time I got her phone number, and the discussions were set up. I was convinced that the repeated opportunities to contact this woman in a city of 1.5 million were God's will in action.

Then I came home from my mission. I went on a trip to Houston (pop. 2 million), and I went to the mall with my parents. Low and behold, who should I bump into but one of my best childhood friends who was living in Houston. What are the chances of that? I don't know what the chances are. But since I have returned from my mission, I have noticed that I sometimes bump into familiar people even in very large cities, so the chances obviously aren't as slim as I thought. At that point, I no longer believed that God helped me to bump into people.

Then I thought back on my mission, and I remembered a goofy Russian guy with a weird hat who I street-contacted once. He started yelling at me because I was American and my country was "killing his brothers in Serbia." In retrospect, it occurred to me that I had seen that dude all over town--like 10 times--in completely different parts of the this giant city. There is no freaking way God was involved with that one. The dude almost decked me when he found out I was an American.

Thus, I no longer believe that God makes chance meetings possible.

Maybe, maybe not. But your two situations are not analogous. In the first instance, you saw the SAME person again, and she was someone you wanted to see again. IN the second instance, it was someone you knew, but not someone you were seeing again or who you wanted to see, necessarily. I don't see how either proves or disproves the other, to be quite frank. OTOH, I would put some store in your own personal interpretation of the events.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by MudphudCoug

Thus, I no longer believe that God makes chance meetings possible.

And I would say that you believe that as you have gotten more "smart" or "learned" you are leaning more to your own understanding.

I do not believe God makes all chance meetings possible. But I do believe he makes some of them happen.

And I don't mean to offend, but saying that you know what God can and can't do seems to me to be the height of arrogance.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

And I don't mean to offend, but saying that you know what God can and can't do seems to me to be the height of arrogance.

Kindly point out where I said that I know what God can and cannot do.

I said that I don't believe in something, and then you call me arrogant. That's ridiculous of you.

You are all about imposing your way of thinking on others. You feel threatened by people who think differently. I don't feel threatened by your beliefs. I don't want to change your beliefs. I just think it's ridiculous that you fling insults over something like this in the name of so-called "spirituality."

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by MudphudCoug

Kindly point out where I said that I know what God can and cannot do.

I said that I don't believe in something, and then you call me arrogant. That's ridiculous of you.

You said that you no longer believe God causes chance meetings. To split hairs, you did not say he can't, you said he doesn't.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

You said that you no longer believe God causes chance meetings. To split hairs, you did not say he can't, you said he doesn't.

I said I don't believe that he causes chance meetings. I never said I knew anything.

You feel threatened by Mormons who don't believe the way you do. Get over it.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by MudphudCoug

I said I don't believe that he does it. I never said I knew anything.

You feel threatened by Mormons who don't believe the way you do. Get over it.

Threatened? What on earth have I said that could possibly lead you to believe that.

This will piss you off too, but what I have said before and I will say again is I feel saddened that there are Mormons who are believers (not talking about apostates here) who have not had the spiritual experiences that I have. I really can say I know things to be true through the witness of the Spirit and experiences I have had and it has NOTHING to do with intellect. It is my sincerest desire that all members gain that same witness. It that pisses you off, so be it.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

I really can say I know things to be true through the witness of the Spirit and experiences I have had and it has NOTHING to do with intellect.

What do you think of John Widtsoe's book "A Rational Theology"?