Ok... I'll restart the GSA thread...

[DirtyHippieUTE]

Robin/Faith... The GSA has no place in public schools...

You can go on and on about how it is a group that promotes fellowship and understanding between gay and non-gay students but frankly I don't give a crap. It doesn't belong in a public school.

Should they have the S&M Prude alliance club?

How about the Bestiality FFA alliance?

Or the Pedophilia alliance?

Or how about the psychotic killer alliance?

Now I'm waiting for the response where somebody gets their hackles up and says that homosexuality is totally different from those other activities but I would like you to explain to me how...

[Robin]

Originally Posted by DirtyHippieUTE

Robin/Faith... The GSA has no place in public schools...

You can go on and on about how it is a group that promotes fellowship and understanding between gay and non-gay students but frankly I don't give a crap. It doesn't belong in a public school.

Should they have the S&M Prude alliance club?

How about the Bestiality FFA alliance?

Or the Pedophilia alliance?

Or how about the psychotic killer alliance?

Now I'm waiting for the response where somebody gets their hackles up and says that homosexuality is totally different from those other activities but I would like you to explain to me how...

In a PUBLIC school that allows people to organize clubs, students should be able to organize any sort of club that does not promote illegal behavior. In the free market of ideas, some clubs will ultimately thrive, and others will not. GSA's all over the country have proven their significance in numbers, and have consistently promoted tolerant behavior toward gay people.

What about promoting tolerant behavior toward gay people do you not accept?

[il Padrino Ute]

I have to say that in regard to GSAs, I don't care if they exist so long as any funds used to support them are entirely private. I feel the same way about FBLA, DECA and any other extra-cirricular clubs at public schools.

[DirtyHippieUTE]

Originally Posted by Robin

...students should be able to organize any sort of club that does not promote illegal behavior...

Anything goes as long as it is legal? Are you sure that's the standard? You're setting the bar pretty low.

How about a we like to masturbate while thinking about teacher club?

Should the "I like to eat my own feces club" have a faculty advisor? They could promote tolerance between the kids who eat their own turds and the kids who don't eat their own turds.

What about a neo-nazi group who believe that the world will be a much better place if everybody would just accept that whites are a superior race and should rule the world?

Just because it is legal doesn't mean it is right or that it should be in our schools.

The legal standard wont work. The law isn't the high mark it is the absolute minimum we will accept. The idea is to create an enviroment where children can learn.

Does having a thousand special interest/political activist groups on campus really lend itself to that goal?

Originally Posted by Robin

GSA's all over the country have proven their significance in numbers

Significant? So what? What does the fact that it is a significant group have to do with whether or not it has a place in public schools?

Many groups have proven their significance thru numbers. That doesn't make them appropriate.

Hell... The KKK is a hugely significant group. Does that doesn't grant them a place at Springville HS?

Originally Posted by Robin

What about tolerant behavior toward gay people do you not accept?

Nice line... That's like when Snipe asks people "What is it about freedom that you hate?"

Try to villanize me but the truth is that I'm just not buying your line of crap.

Is it tolerance that the GSA is really after? Do they want to be tolerated or accepted? How do the kids in the GSA feel about the right wing nut jobs who think they're all going to hell? Do they feel like they should have a place in the school?

Get right down to the bare bones. The GSA and other groups like it want people to accept homosexuality as a natural and appropriate behavior. They are intolerant of my belief that what they are doing is sick and wrong.

Now tell me how "closed minded" I am because I don't see it your way.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by DirtyHippieUTE

Anything goes as long as it is legal? Are you sure that's the standard? You're setting the bar pretty low.

How about a we like to masturbate while thinking about teacher club?

Should the "I like to eat my own feces club" have a faculty advisor? They could promote tolerance between the kids who eat their own turds and the kids who don't eat their own turds.

What about a neo-nazi group who believe that the world will be a much better place if everybody would just accept that whites are a superior race and should rule the world?

Just because it is legal doesn't mean it is right or that it should be in our schools.

The legal standard wont work. The law isn't the high mark it is the absolute minimum we will accept. The idea is to create an enviroment where children can learn.

Does having a thousand special interest/political activist groups on campus really lend itself to that goal?



Significant? So what? What does the fact that it is a significant group have to do with whether or not it has a place in public schools?

Many groups have proven their significance thru numbers. That doesn't make them appropriate.

Hell... The KKK is a hugely significant group. Does that doesn't grant them a place at Springville HS?



Nice line... That's like when Snipe asks people "What is it about freedom that you hate?"

Try to villanize me but the truth is that I'm just not buying your line of crap.

Is it tolerance that the GSA is really after? Do they want to be tolerated or accepted? How do the kids in the GSA feel about the right wing nut jobs who think they're all going to hell? Do they feel like they should have a place in the school?

Get right down to the bare bones. The GSA and other groups like it want people to accept homosexuality as a natural and appropriate behavior. They are intolerant of my belief that what they are doing is sick and wrong.

Now tell me how "closed minded" I am because I don't see it your way.

I'm not going to call you closed minded at all. We both support the right of the Mormon kids to get together and form a 'club' that promotes negative views of the gay kids. All I am saying is that if the public schools will bend over backwards to give Mormon kids that kind of forum then the gay kids and their straight friends should be provided a similar forum where they can promote different views. At the end of the day I have enough confidence in the POV that I support that I am happy to let the GSA and any religious clubs compete for the minds of our kids. In the long run, I believe tolerance of gay people, and yes, even tolerance of the right of gay people to have gay sex, will win the day.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Robin

I'm not going to call you closed minded at all. We both support the right of the Mormon kids to get together and form a 'club' that promotes negative views of the gay kids. All I am saying is that if the public schools will bend over backwards to give Mormon kids that kind of forum then the gay kids and their straight friends should be provided a similar forum where they can promote different views. At the end of the day I have enough confidence in the POV that I support that I am happy to let the GSA and an religious clubs to compete for the minds of our kids. In the long run, I believe tolerance of gay people, and yes, even tolerance of the right of gay people to have gay sex, will win the day.

Do schools outside of Utah bend over backwards to allow Mormon kids to have seminary? And in Utah, as already pointed out, LDS seminaries are not on campus and sudents are released from school to attend.

I will agree with NS that a GSA club would have a harder time getting the same permissions as seminary to do this, but the point is that it shouldn't be in a public school. Just like sminary isn't in the public school.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Do schools outside of Utah bend over backwards to allow Mormon kids to have seminary? And in Utah, as already pointed out, LDS seminaries are not on campus and sudents are released from school to attend.

I will agree with NS that a GSA club would have a harder time getting the same permissions as seminary to do this, but the point is that it shouldn't be in a public school. Just like sminary isn't in the public school.

Yea, I saw you write those arguments after I had already posted, and had to take a few steps back (and edit). There are plenty of religious clubs that exist with the full sanction of schools. I find MUCH of what gets discussed in those clubs to be incredibly offensive. But I will fight for the right of those clubs to exist.

If a public school is going to allow any clubs, I think that the current legal interpretation of the Constitution that allows GSA clubs is correct. What would you offer as an alternative for determining which clubs should be allowed in school?

[Archaea]

School clubs.

Why do we even have them?

How can we prove no public funds are used in utilities, school advocats or school security?

I'm against school clubs period.

School should be for rigorous academic instructions, athletic instruction, and music instruction. Leave politics and games out of it.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Robin

Yea, I saw you write those arguments after I had already posted, and had to take a few steps back (and edit). There are plenty of religious clubs that exist with the full sanction of schools. I find MUCH of what gets discussed in those clubs to be incredibly offensive. But I will fight for the right of those clubs to exist.

If a public school is going to allow any clubs, I think that the current legal interpretation of the Constitution that allows GSA clubs is correct. What would you offer as an alternative for determining which clubs should be allowed in school?

My thoughts are that if a club is allowed to be in a public school, then all funding for it should be private. If public money is involved for a certain club, it shouldn't be allowed.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

My thoughts are that if a club is allowed to be in a public school, then all funding for it should be private. If public money is involved for a certain club, it shouldn't be allowed.

That is the way it is for most clubs. They raise their own money. But they are allowed to sell brownies in the hall, and they are generally provided space to meet inside the school, and for the strong anti-gsa types, even this trivial amount of tax dollars (pennies) to pay for the electricity to the room, or the heat for the room, is too much.