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02-23-2010, 11:26 AM | #11 | |
Demiurge
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Utah is better than Oregon by about any measure? How about the medical schools? In research, Oregon is ranked #35 by US News. Utah is ranked #51. Oregon #3 in primary care, Utah is #29. In the top public universities category, they are similar but Oregon comes out ahead, 57 vs. 63. Universities have to raise admission standards when the demand is much higher than the supply. I suppose they could resort to simple lottery, but I'm not aware of any university that does that. Imagine if all the kids at BYU wanted to go to Univ. of Utah, what an impact that would have. It would dramatically change the Univ. of Utah. BYU is what it is. A non-research university that draws lot of bright LDS kids. Univ. of Utah is a mid-range public university, and because of its location and admission standards, is a commuter school. Which has manifested itself with relatively poor support of its athletics program. On message boards, we call this "attendance smack." |
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02-23-2010, 03:22 PM | #12 | |
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Okay, I exaggerated A LITTLE BIT vis-a-vis Oregon and Utah. Clearly Utah is in Oregon's class. Don't talk to me about "primary care" rankings. As you well know, this has little or no impact on a med school's rankings that matter. BYU's problems are deeper than that it is a non-research university. It bears all the racism, homophobia, sexism, anti-intellectualism, anti-liberal arts baggage that does Bob Jones university. It remains unrepentant and continues many of these beliefs and practices. it is anti-gay and oppresses women. Its professors are still preaching creationism in published works, not to mention the junk science at FARMS.
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02-23-2010, 03:26 PM | #13 | |
Assistant to the Regional Manager
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Mike and I are better aware of BYU's shortcomings than you are, but you grossly overstate its weaknesses and ignore completely its strengths, thereby diminishing your credibility.
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02-23-2010, 03:33 PM | #14 | |
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I'm not alone in my assessment of BYU. The Pac 10 agrees with me. Just look how BYU stacks up in terms of attendance: http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats...dance/2009.pdf Note also, Utah's attendance is comparable to or higher than half of the BCS schools at least. Just imagine the boost when it gets admitted to the Pac 10.
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster Last edited by SeattleUte; 02-23-2010 at 03:36 PM. |
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02-23-2010, 03:39 PM | #15 | |
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02-23-2010, 03:47 PM | #16 |
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A "university" could decide to teach all of its classes through a musical hip-hop presentation. That would break new ground, but not enhance its reputation. All I'm saying is BYU has problems when judged by the prevailing values and standards. Universities very much do have standards and values that they tend to share and judge one another against.
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
02-23-2010, 04:11 PM | #17 |
Demiurge
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I'm sorry, what does the Pac 10 think of BYU's football attendance? That it is awesome?
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02-24-2010, 05:53 AM | #18 | |
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02-24-2010, 06:03 AM | #19 |
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I'm saying the whole concept has much meaning only in Waters' mind.
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
02-24-2010, 02:03 PM | #20 | |
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However, for reasons I partially disagree with, BYU has decided not to pursue research dollars. Do you believe if the Board of Trustees declared, "let's go after research dollars" that it woudn't suddenly become relevant in that market? Lack of research is a choice in this instance. I'd prefer another choice but nobody asked me. and the lack of complete academic freedom on a few limited issues is unsettling to the academic in me, I'd be lying if I said otherwise. But I understand the motive as well. OTOH, the few issues where that's a problem seems to be decreasing and may eventually fade into the past. BYU is not some middle eastern school hiding behind a cloak. Now whether BYU belongs in another athletic conference remains to be seen. We'll wait and see. Either way, I'll still watch.
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