12-12-2007, 04:51 PM | #61 |
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Eh, not exactly. Cali thinks he may have just come up with the idea on his own, and the Spirit just promised to look the other way while he did it.
You guys really do take some wonderful creative license with the scriptures.
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12-12-2007, 04:53 PM | #62 | |
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To believe he murdered Laban in cold-blood, without Divine sanction, would then imply that he would be subject to the discipline of an angry God. What circumstantial evidence(s) do we have of such disciplinary action? No more visions, like being caught away in the spirit to see the entire history of mankind unfolded unto him? Like being given vision and the interpretation thereof of the Tree of Life? No more revelation, like finding food, using the Liahona and learning how to construct a seaworth vessel? There is NO circumstantial evidence that Nephi's dispatching of Laban was expressly against the will of God. Please explain to me; which position is more absurd, Arch? |
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12-12-2007, 04:54 PM | #63 | |
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Yes or no? And no I would not hurt a family member in order to procure information from a terrorist unless that family member was a known/proven terrorist himself.
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12-12-2007, 04:59 PM | #64 | |
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Suppose God is not as judgmental as we like to think we are. We have the example, modern, of Alex Carrington being in the First Presidency with Brigham Young, carrying the Spirit, even though he was having an affair for ten years. There are unsubstantiated rumors that others more lofty had affairs. I'm not certain your assumption that God withholds blessings from others if the persons through which he must act are unworthy personally. I'm also beginning to wonder if our unworthiness even for horrible acts cannot be cleansed through tremendous sufferings and the effects of the atonement through means not understood. Again, looking at Mike's proposition requires thinking outside the orthodoxy and rejecting orthodox constructions and assumptions. Most won't agree with this exercise, which I'm okay with. It is not mean as an offense to you. Also let's say Nephi's scared, and wonders what to do, so he thinks he hears God say, lop off the head. So he does it. Even if it's wrong, is it necessarily murder? Are there other possibilities?
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12-12-2007, 05:05 PM | #65 | |
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12-12-2007, 05:10 PM | #66 |
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It is an interesting contrast, isn't it. It leaves much to ponder, but I don't see that the answers are universal.
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12-12-2007, 05:34 PM | #67 | ||
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Last edited by pelagius; 12-12-2007 at 05:41 PM. |
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12-12-2007, 06:01 PM | #68 |
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Actually I have no problem defending my family to the death.
However taking someones life is an event isolated by its expeditious nature. Extending someones suffering through torture before ending their life IMO is not acceptable.
Honestly if the MI agencies would spend more efforts in understanding the cultures that we are at odds with and developing preventive measures, than I would support efforts to eliminate quickly enemies that threaten our freedoms. Forget interrogation, just eliminate. Once the word is out that the US takes no prisoners, many of these threats would be allayed. Not all, but many. More enemies would be inclined to end up on the US MI payroll as informants vs, risking getting caught in the cross fire. Death is humane vs torture. |
12-12-2007, 06:11 PM | #69 | |
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I don't think it's unreasonable to question the burden for cold-blooded murder that Nephi may have had to carry. I also don't think we should underestimate the power of the atonement in assisting him with that burden. But Mike's suggestion that the Laban account is evidence of a man riddled with guilt is reaching. Interesting that such guilt is not evident in Nephi's psalm in 2 Ne 4. Let's also not forget the Book of Mormon suggests that Nephi fought other battles with his brothers' family. There's a decent chance Nephi had the blood of multiple men, even kin, on his hands. He was a lion of a Godly man nonetheless.
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"Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young Last edited by Tex; 12-12-2007 at 06:21 PM. |
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12-12-2007, 06:16 PM | #70 | |
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I know this wasn't intended but your "I know the experience actually happened" phrase makes it sound like you were there. Perhaps you were the would be mugger? Funny, I would have never thought you lived on the south side of Chicago. Last edited by pelagius; 12-12-2007 at 06:25 PM. |
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