Gun Lobby "mole"

[Ma'ake]

A lady was employed by the NRA, inflitrated gun control organizations to learn of their strategies for specific legislation, etc, apparently reporting her findings to her employers.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feat...y-nra-spy.html

Surfing around the net it looks like more than a few pro-gun folks have no problem defending her actions.

Do the ends justify the means in this case? (I'm not asserting gun control groups & activists are innocent of unethical behavior - I just don't know.)

If the answer in this case is "yes", considering fairly wide definition of worthy ends, if the example is extended to, say, religion and the public battle for religious "education" (ie, fundmentalist christian bent on saving Mormons), does the same apply?

(We're talking about domestic politics, not state-sponsored espionage in defense of the nation.)

[T Blue]

It happens all the time, I wouldn't be surprised if there were these moles within the LDS church or other churches right now.

[il Padrino Ute]

Good for the mole. When lobbyists want to limit our exercise of the 2nd amendment, we need to know about it.

I'm not sure I understand your question about if it would be applicable to moles in religion. We don't need moles in your example, as the Evangelicals don't hide what they're doing as far as wanting to save Mormons. They aren't shy about telling us that we're a cult and they want us to come to Jesus.

[Frank Ryan]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Good for the mole. When lobbyists want to limit our exercise of the 2nd amendment, we need to know about it.

I'm not sure I understand your question about if it would be applicable to moles in religion. We don't need moles in your example, as the Evangelicals don't hide what they're doing as far as wanting to save Mormons. They aren't shy about telling us that we're a cult and they want us to come to Jesus.

I'm sure there are moles in religious groups. People trying to expose and examine for journalistic purposes the inner workings of an organization. It is unethical. And I'd think it unethical for someone to infiltrate the NRA to gain insider information.

It's lying if nothing else.

[Ma'ake]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

I'm not sure I understand your question about if it would be applicable to moles in religion. We don't need moles in your example, as the Evangelicals don't hide what they're doing as far as wanting to save Mormons. They aren't shy about telling us that we're a cult and they want us to come to Jesus.

I could see a fundamentalist, in an effort to "save" potential converts, joining the church, getting into the temple, describing the baptism-for-the-dead and ultimately some of the most sacred ordinances, then writing an expose, all to discredit the church and turn away investigators.

This could absolutely be justified by some "Christians", indeed by anyone who is willing to subvert ethics toward a "greater cause". (Again, we're not talking national defense justified espionage)

I find the whole practice - no matter who engages in it - to be disgusting and un-American.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Ma'ake

I could see a fundamentalist, in an effort to "save" potential converts, joining the church, getting into the temple, describing the baptism-for-the-dead and ultimately some of the most sacred ordinances, then writing an expose, all to discredit the church and turn away investigators.

This could absolutely be justified by some "Christians", indeed by anyone who is willing to subvert ethics toward a "greater cause". (Again, we're not talking national defense justified espionage)

I find the whole practice - no matter who engages in it - to be disgusting and un-American.

What goes on inside the Mormon temples has already been brought into public knowledge. Remember the film The God Makers"?

I can understand what you're saying and don't necessarily disagree that this spying is not a good thing, but again, if there are groups that want to limit our 2nd amendment right, we ought to know about it.

If you disagree, I can respect that, but I'd ask why you disagree, so I can better understand your position.

[Ma'ake]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

...but again, if there are groups that want to limit our 2nd amendment right, we ought to know about it.

If you disagree, I can respect that, but I'd ask why you disagree, so I can better understand your position.

I disagree because there is no real threat to gun ownership, but in this it appears the NRA is using this idea as justification for unethical behavior.

There are very, very few circumstances that justify private domestic espionage for political or religious purposes.

Now... spying on BYU football practice... you & I are completely on board with this, right?



Take care, Port

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Ma'ake

I disagree because there is no real threat to gun ownership, but in this it appears the NRA is using this idea as justification for unethical behavior.

There are very, very few circumstances that justify private domestic espionage for political or religious purposes.

Now... spying on BYU football practice... you & I are completely on board with this, right?



Take care, Port

We are closer to thinking alike when it comes to domestic spying. We probably just have a minute number of different reasons.

I agree about spying on BYU football practice. But mostly for the effect that it would have on zoobs, rather than what could be taken from it to benefit the Utes.

For the record, I'm GarthUte.