Morning after pill

[Levin]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I don't see how that means that the life that was created lose its rights.

You presumably wouldn't believe in infantcide for a child born of rape.

You probably also wouldn't believe that if a man/boy was raped, that the fetus had no rights, would you?

If you believe in abortion for rape, you plain believe in abortion.

You just won't admit it.

The life that was created doesn't lose its rights. It's that decision to end the life that gains justification.

And no, I don't believe in infanticide for a child born of rape. A live child is different than a live zygote/embryo. The moral worth of each is different.

I'm not categorical about this, like it seems you are.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Levin

The life that was created doesn't lose its rights. It's that decision to end the life that gains justification.

And no, I don't believe in infanticide for a child born of rape. A live child is different than a live zygote/embryo. The moral worth of each is different.

I'm not categorical about this, like it seems you are.

Not categorical = not principled.

I don't see why you oppose MAP after drunken escapade. If she hadn't been drunk, she wouldn't have chosen it. She never chose it in her right mind. It's just an embryo. You already believe it is ok to kill the embryo if it were a date-rape. Now all of a sudden you are high and mighty about the rights of the embryo in the case of your drunken niece?

Weird. I think you are just mad at your niece.

[Levin]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Not categorical = not principled.

I don't see why you oppose MAP after drunken escapade. If she hadn't been drunk, she wouldn't have chosen it. She never chose it in her right mind. It's just an embryo. You already believe it is ok to kill the embryo if it were a date-rape. Now all of a sudden you are high and mighty about the rights of the embryo in the case of your drunken niece?

Weird. I think you are just mad at your niece.

You're SU's brother through and through.

I think getting drunk and having sex is much different than getting raped.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Levin

You're SU's brother through and through.

No seriously.

Drunken mishap = embryo sacrosanct

Rape = embryo meat

What do you think about abortion after rape? I presume you are fine with it?

[Levin]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

No seriously.

Drunken mishap = embryo sacrosanct

Rape = embryo meat

What do you think about abortion after rape? I presume you are fine with it?

You use your characterizations wisely.

I don't believe much in drunken mishaps. My niece has been sexually active for quite some time. She got drunk and did something she has been doing for a while. It wasn't a mishap.

How is getting drunk and having sex equivalent to getting raped?

I'm not "fine" with abortions after rape. The fetus created as a result of rape clearly has all the same rights to life as the baby created by consensual sex. But there are countervailing interests that may make it morally justifiable. I am open to that possiblity.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Levin

You use your characterizations wisely.

I don't believe much in drunken mishaps. My niece has been sexually active for quite some time. She got drunk and did something she has been doing for a while. It wasn't a mishap.

How is getting drunk and having sex equivalent to getting raped?

How does the value of the embryo change based on whether there was consent?

Again, do you think abortion after rape is ok?

Also, I don't get why whether your niece was previously sexually active has anything to do with it. If she was a virgin prior to the drunken interlude, would you then be ok with MAP?

[Levin]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

How does the value of the embryo change based on whether there was consent?

Again, do you think abortion after rape is ok?

Also, I don't get why whether your niece was previously sexually active has anything to do with it. If she was a virgin prior to the drunken interlude, would you then be ok with MAP?

What I'm saying is I don't believe in drunken mishaps. Having never been drunk, it is hard for me to say, but I don't think a person is relieved of being a moral agent when drunk. It's a choice to get drunk, and a person's volition is not so impaired by alcohol so as to strip away all moral agency.

[landpoke]

Originally Posted by Levin

What I'm saying is I don't believe in drunken mishaps. Having never been drunk, it is hard for me to say, but I don't think a person is relieved of being a moral agent when drunk. It's a choice to get drunk, and a person's volition is not so impaired by alcohol so as to strip away all moral agency.

If you've admittedly not been drunk then what basis do you have for your statement? As one who has been drunk on many occasions I can say definitively that there is severe impairment to one's volition. I don't know exactly what you mean by "moral agency" so I can't speak to that point, but I've woken up next to a few large women in my time which probably indicates a certain amount of stripping.

[Levin]

Originally Posted by landpoke

If you've admittedly not been drunk then what basis do you have for your statement? As one who has been drunk on many occasions I can say definitively that there is severe impairment to one's volition. I don't know exactly what you mean by "moral agency" so I can't speak to that point, but I've woken up next to a few large women in my time which probably indicates a certain amount of stripping of one's moral agency.

I agree that some volition is stripped, but not all of it, as it is with rape. There's no equivalency between the two.

Are you sure the larger women didn't, you know, take advantage of you?

[landpoke]

Originally Posted by Levin

I agree that some volition is stripped, but not all of it, as it is with rape. There's no equivalency between the two.

Are you sure the larger women didn't, you know, take advantage of you?

Back in the day, after I'd had a few, my love didn't discriminate on the basis of race, creed, color, national origin or waist size. As my dear departed grandfather used to tell us kids: [another word for cat] is [another word for cat.]

So, to answer your question, it was most definitely consensual.