American Religious Identification Survey 2008

[MikeWaters]

How about relying on the message of the restoration, unabashedly, and unembarrassedly, and let God perform the miracles?

(and increase the activity budgets).

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

How about relying on the message of the restoration, unabashedly, and unembarrassedly, and let God perform the miracles?

(and increase the activity budgets).

So, refuse to think out a solution on our own and let God do all the work.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Archaea

So, refuse to think out a solution on our own and let God do all the work.

actually, if you read between the lines, you will see my suggestion that we are not proclaiming the restoration in an unabashed way.

The church is on its heels. Where are the investments of capital going towards? gay marriage? downtown development? What can I point to, and say, "this is what we are doing?"

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Levin

I mean tracting; contacting on streets; mail-in Bibles delivered by missionaries. These methods are inherently more successful with people who are in distressed circumstances, with time on their hands, home from work, not busy with other activities.

And of course you're going to say, well that's why members should be inviting friends. But when was the last time your introduced a friend to the missionaries who taught them a discussion?

I don't know what the answer is.

Not exactly a barrel of optimism there, are ya. While we all love Vincenzo Di Francesca, that's not the most effective (or common) way folks typically come into the church.

You're right, member work is tough, but it's the only really effective way to grow the church in this day and age. People are far too skeptical of organized religion anymore.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

If we are really not that different from any other Chrisitan denomination, why join us?

Heh. Please tell me you really didn't just say that.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Tex

Heh. Please tell me you really didn't just say that.

He means our conduct and our product marketing.

We have tried so hard to become mainstream we succeeded beyond our wildest dreams. Now, we suffer their malaises as well.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

actually, if you read between the lines, you will see my suggestion that we are not proclaiming the restoration in an unabashed way.

The church is on its heels. Where are the investments of capital going towards? gay marriage? downtown development? What can I point to, and say, "this is what we are doing?"

I agree with you that the church is on its heels, and we are too mainstream.

In my mind, we need to stress excellence in everything we do, and to provide the best programs our communities need and desire.

My "solutions" to the missionary problem.

First, adopt some of the strategic solutions set forth by Dr. Stewart.

Second, stop the mainstreaming by seeking to be like most.

Third, strive for excellence in its institutions, such as BYU. Improve existing institutions.

Fourth, increase donations to the Perpetuate Education Fund, stream more money into the outlying communities.

Fifth, increase ward activity budgets.

Fourth, improve pre-marital and post-marital counseling to members. If you are to stress families, it might help if you taught from a professional standpoint how to structure them successfully, instead of just hoping they grow up successfully on a wish and a prayer.

Fifth, refine the telling of the Restoration of authority, and educate the missionaries more thoroughly. Modernize our approaches. The old, knock on doors is horribly inefficient.

Those are some of my ideas.

[Levin]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

actually, if you read between the lines, you will see my suggestion that we are not proclaiming the restoration in an unabashed way.

You're cracking me up! "Read between the lines" lol. Nice way to say, "read the post again, buddy."

My opinion is congealing. around the two main ideas here: (1) massively increase activity budgets and (2) ditch the ecumenicism. Light on a hill -- not one light among many. (But that's not my personal opinion, btw, but maybe it would be the more effective marketing approach).

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Levin

You're cracking me up! "Read between the lines" lol. Nice way to say, "read the post again, buddy."

My opinion is congealing. around the two main ideas here: (1) massively increase activity budgets and (2) ditch the ecumenicism. Light on a hill -- not one light among many. (But that's not my personal opinion, btw, but maybe it would be the more effective marketing approach).

If everything is a tissue, and we wish to be a wipe, then ditch the Kleenex ad.

I read his post but wasn't going to go where he wanted.