Since it is boring and Jay Santos has his voice on this site.... - Page 7 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

jay santos · 10-12-2006, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfah33

Do you not believe because of LR Jr.'s character or because this is BYU we're talking about? Why can't a player not give 110% or not listen to his coach in an effort to see that his coach he does not like or agree with returns? I don't think it's implausible at all. And in that way they're not throwing the game, just not doing everything within their power to win.

Now, if you want to talk about throwing games, I wouldn't be surprised if price fixing and other stunts are very prevalent in today's college sports.

OK, it wouldn't be the most shocking thing in my life to find out LR Jr didn't try his best. However, I'm HIGHLY skeptical of the information. LR Jr and his dad might have been sure of their position with BYU, but the head coach and all the rest of the assistants were fighting for their lives. If LR Jr had been doing anything blatant, he would have been exposed. Also, in the same group that is behind this conspiracy is bringing in missed catches and missed field goals as further evidence. I just don't buy it.

fusnik11 · 10-12-2006, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfah33

Do you not believe because of LR Jr.'s character or because this is BYU we're talking about? Why can't a player not give 110% or not listen to his coach in an effort to see that his coach he does not like or agree with returns? I don't think it's implausible at all. And in that way they're not throwing the game, just not doing everything within their power to win.

Now, if you want to talk about throwing games, I wouldn't be surprised if price fixing and other stunts are very prevalent in today's college sports.

Indy Coug said LR Jr. purposefully played bad so that GC got fired. That is the same as price fixing/throwing games. If this really happened, and he really made those comments, LR Jr. should have his name blotted from everything BYU and his dad's position with the coaching staf, especially if he got a better position, should be under scrutiny.

DrumNFeather · 10-12-2006, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fusnik11

Indy Coug said LR Jr. purposefully played bad so that GC got fired. That is the same as price fixing/throwing games. If this really happened, and he really made those comments, LR Jr. should have his name blotted from everything BYU and his dad's position with the coaching staf, especially if he got a better position, should be under scrutiny.

This would be especially interesting if he was the one that had the holding call on Whalen's 80 yard TD run.

TheSizzle36 · 10-12-2006, 06:20 PM

The UNM game was so ugly, and the team played so poorly, that this does not surprise me one bit. To what level they played below their abilities I do not know. But if I were a player and knew of this going on, I would have been absolutely furious.

TheSizzle36 · 10-12-2006, 06:21 PM

Actually, if that is true, I AM furious as I gave a very large portion of my time to that team... and if players purposefully tanked because of a vendetta against Crowton in hopes that he would get fired, it upsets me.

Surfah · 10-12-2006, 06:25 PM

I am not saying I buy it either, in fact I think that it is highly unlikely that it occured. But at the same time I don't think it's completely out of the realm of possibility either. Players take plays off all the time. There are few players that ever give their all every play, whether it's due to fatigue, play not involving them, etc. That's what I meant by not giving 110% or listening to their coaches. And when this occurs I don't think there is a conscious effort to throw a game. But the difference between throwing the game here and not, is simply the thought.

Surfah · 10-12-2006, 06:29 PM

By the way, someone should introduce this topic over at CB. Talk about garments in a bunch, this would cause an outrage.

fusnik11 · 10-12-2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfah33

I am not saying I buy it either, in fact I think that it is highly unlikely that it occured. But at the same time I don't think it's completely out of the realm of possibility either. Players take plays off all the time. There are few players that ever give their all every play, whether it's due to fatigue, play not involving them, etc. That's what I meant by not giving 110% or listening to their coaches. And when this occurs I don't think there is a conscious effort to throw a game. But the difference between throwing the game here and not, is simply the thought.

By your definition than every game would be thrown as nobody can truly give 110% all the time. Humans grow tired, they are distracted, they struggle learning, their bodies are frail, etc.

There is a huge difference between throwing a game, and not giving the effort needed to win a game. Sometimes players don't give the required effort and still win, in every game every single player takes plays off and at times those plays are still small victories. This is acceptable because, like stated earlier, we are not perfect beings. But, throwing a game? Going into a game knowing you will purposefully tank plays, make mistakes, so that your team loses so that your coach loses his job? Those are highly serious accusations and are not differentiated simply by thought.

Like I said, if LR Jr. said he purposefully threw a game his name should be ripped from BYU records, his father's position should be scrutinized and he shouldn't be allowed back at BYU in any way shape or form.

Surfah · 10-12-2006, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fusnik11

But, throwing a game? Going into a game knowing you will purposefully tank plays, make mistakes, so that your team loses so that your coach loses his job? Those are highly serious accusations and are not differentiated simply by thought.

How are they differentiated then?

TheSizzle36 · 10-12-2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfah33

How are they differentiated then?

As I understand it, purpose. In one case you give what you can, but not your all on every play because you physically can't. The other case you purposefully don't give your all in hopes of making your coach look bad and hope that he gets fired.

Between those two there is a HUGE difference.

10-12-2006, 06:25 PM	#66
Surfah Master Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: F'burg, VA Posts: 3,211	I am not saying I buy it either, in fact I think that it is highly unlikely that it occured. But at the same time I don't think it's completely out of the realm of possibility either. Players take plays off all the time. There are few players that ever give their all every play, whether it's due to fatigue, play not involving them, etc. That's what I meant by not giving 110% or listening to their coaches. And when this occurs I don't think there is a conscious effort to throw a game. But the difference between throwing the game here and not, is simply the thought. __________________ Ernie Johnson: "Auburn is a pretty good school. To graduate from there I suppose you really need to work hard and put forth maximum effort." Charles Barkley: "20 pts and 10 rebounds will get you through also!"

10-12-2006, 06:29 PM	#67
Surfah Master Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: F'burg, VA Posts: 3,211	By the way, someone should introduce this topic over at CB. Talk about garments in a bunch, this would cause an outrage. __________________ Ernie Johnson: "Auburn is a pretty good school. To graduate from there I suppose you really need to work hard and put forth maximum effort." Charles Barkley: "20 pts and 10 rebounds will get you through also!"

10-12-2006, 06:20 PM	#64
TheSizzle36 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,786	The UNM game was so ugly, and the team played so poorly, that this does not surprise me one bit. To what level they played below their abilities I do not know. But if I were a player and knew of this going on, I would have been absolutely furious.

10-12-2006, 06:21 PM	#65
TheSizzle36 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,786	Actually, if that is true, I AM furious as I gave a very large portion of my time to that team... and if players purposefully tanked because of a vendetta against Crowton in hopes that he would get fired, it upsets me.