UFC vs Pride

[MikeWaters]

Show me a MMA fight in which someone won with kicks. As far as I can tell the ratio of punches to kicks is something like 95:5.

Tyson was never a good boxer. Probably the most overrated boxer of all time. But may have also been the best-managed boxer of all time.

That kickboxer is FOS.

I'm betting that purses in boxing are still much higher than purses in UFC. People in boxing have invested their entire lives in the sport. Since they were kids. Switching to UFC is a big step, sending the message "I have failed in boxing." i.e. Butterbean. A true boxing contender, it seems, would have no incentive to leave boxing. A bad boxer might.

Does anyone have a link to purses in the UFC?

[MikeWaters]

Mike Tyson signed up with PRIDE, but now his cocaine habit is putting that relationship in jeapordy.

If Tyson does well in PRIDE or UFC that will completely discredit MMA athletes.

[Surfah]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Show me a MMA fight in which someone won with kicks. As far as I can tell the ratio of punches to kicks is something like 95:5.

Tyson was never a good boxer. Probably the most overrated boxer of all time. But may have also been the best-managed boxer of all time.

That kickboxer is FOS.

I'm betting that purses in boxing are still much higher than purses in UFC. People in boxing have invested their entire lives in the sport. Since they were kids. Switching to UFC is a big step, sending the message "I have failed in boxing." i.e. Butterbean. A true boxing contender, it seems, would have no incentive to leave boxing. A bad boxer might.

Does anyone have a link to purses in the UFC?

You have never seen Mirko "Crocop" fight in Pride then. He obliterates opponents with kicks. There are several UFC/Pride/MMA fights that have ended with kicks. Here's a "Crocop" highlight reel. He fights later this month in his UFC debut.

[Surfah]

BTW, Mirko "CroCop" Filipovic is the baddest mother on the planet IMO. When he knocked out Wanderlei with a kick he split Silva's head open with a nasty gash.

[MikeWaters]

the kick has a big windup. as a fighter, freaking step in and take him down while he's off balance.

[MikeWaters]

According to my friend:

1) He estimated the payout to Liddell as around 500,000. By comparison, the estimate for Delahoya in his next fight is 20 million. With a total purse of about 35 million.
2) boxing is an international sport. UFC is a national sport.
3) UFC organizers are getting rich. The fighters are not.
4) UFC has heavier weight classes than Boxing and Wrestling. Why? To exclude Asians and Mexicans
5) Liddell would beat Hopkins in MMA fight. Hopkins would beat Liddell in a street fight. Liddell would not even be an average boxer. Liddell has heavy hands, but poor form, and would be destroyed in the boxing ring.
6) It is much easier to learn effective grappling/sprawling than it is to learn boxing/punching

[Surfah]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

According to my friend:

1) He estimated the payout to Liddell as around 500,000. By comparison, the estimate for Delahoya in his next fight is 20 million. With a total purse of about 35 million.
2) boxing is an international sport. UFC is a national sport.
3) UFC organizers are getting rich. The fighters are not.
4) UFC has heavier weight classes than Boxing and Wrestling. Why? To exclude Asians and Mexicans
5) Liddell would beat Hopkins in MMA fight. Hopkins would beat Liddell in a street fight. Liddell would not even be an average boxer. Liddell has heavy hands, but poor form, and would be destroyed in the boxing ring.
6) It is much easier to learn effective grappling/sprawling than it is to learn boxing/punching

I disagree with your views of a racist UFC. I also disagree that Hopkins would win in a street fight. A boxing match maybe. But a stand up street fight without boxing sanctions and rules and my money is still on Liddell. Hopkins is giving up 45 pounds or so to Liddell. That is huge and can't be discounted. And finally, I completely disagree with your 6th point. To be able to counter all the different submissions while avoiding having your head taken off by punches, elbows, kicks, knees, etc is much more difficult than just keeping your gloves up and chin tucked in and stepping side to side.

[MikeWaters]

I think you lose credibility when you say that "maybe" Liddell would lose a boxing match to Hopkins, one of the best pound-for-pound boxers in history.

You are basically saying that someone who has never boxed could possibly beat one of the best boxers in history!

My friend would argue that submission holds don't really occur in street fighting. If your leg or arm is being bit, you are going to try to get up and away very quickly.

Wild haymakers are not the way to take a guy down. And that's what I see from these UFC fighters (what little I have seen).

I wonder if Liddell could survive the first combination from a truly great boxer.

[cougjunkie]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I think you lose credibility when you say that "maybe" Liddell would lose a boxing match to Hopkins, one of the best pound-for-pound boxers in history.

You are basically saying that someone who has never boxed could possibly beat one of the best boxers in history!

My friend would argue that submission holds don't really occur in street fighting. If your leg or arm is being bit, you are going to try to get up and away very quickly.

Wild haymakers are not the way to take a guy down. And that's what I see from these UFC fighters (what little I have seen).

I wonder if Liddell could survive the first combination from a truly great boxer.

THis debate will go on forever, until someone ponies up the dough to have them actually fight i would love to see a Roy Jones vs Liddell fight they are both the same age, they both at one time were the best pound for pound in their sport. But mix the boxing and MMA rules

Maybe no grappling, but you can use knees, punch, and kick. Something like that.

The bottom line is this if you talk to a boxer, they will say they are the toughest, wrestlers think they are the toughest, jiu jiutsu guys same thing, and so on and so forth. The debate will never end.

[Surfah]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I think you lose credibility when you say that "maybe" Liddell would lose a boxing match to Hopkins, one of the best pound-for-pound boxers in history.

You are basically saying that someone who has never boxed could possibly beat one of the best boxers in history!

My friend would argue that submission holds don't really occur in street fighting. If your leg or arm is being bit, you are going to try to get up and away very quickly.

Wild haymakers are not the way to take a guy down. And that's what I see from these UFC fighters (what little I have seen).

I wonder if Liddell could survive the first combination from a truly great boxer.

Maybe, because anything can happen. The best can go down from one lucky shot, from one injury, from anything. In a street fight anything can happen and that's why I said maybe.

Gloves off and Hopkins gives up 40 plus pounds in the street and you're still taking Hopkins? Outside of a square ring, Hopkins wouldn't know what to do.

You're probably right though about most street fights not ending in submission. But the fact that you have to defend against that is just one more thing to worry about than a fist. I have been in two fights in my life and one ended with a rear naked choke after I was doing my best Tito Ortiz ground and pound impression before the kid was able to roll onto his stomach and gave me his back.